toofasttim Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 I suspect that many of you, like me, are closet moon race fans. I can't get enough of the history of, arguably, the greatest feat of engineering in history. If you are have a look here. It's pure gold, all the stuff they gloss over in "from the earth to the moon": Saturn quarterly reports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 I suspect that many of you, like me, are closet moon race fans. I can't get enough of the history of, arguably, the greatest feat of engineering in history. If you are have a look here. It's pure gold, all the stuff they gloss over in "from the earth to the moon": Saturn quarterly reports Never was a 'paperclip' so valuable? As much as I despised the Nazis,they did have some good kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted May 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Never was a 'paperclip' so valuable? Very clever Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Very clever Wayne Jeez, it is too late for me to get into all that now. I gotta sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 I don't mean to subvert the reason behind your original post on the Apollo missions but I have a real problem with the 'Master-race's' Nazi representative; SS Sturmbannf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 I don't mean to subvert the reason behind your original post on the Apollo missions but I have a real problem with the 'Master-race's' Nazi representative; SS Sturmbannf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 ........ ..There is roumour they got things flying about now that you may never see in your lifetime. We can accellerate things rapidly! We gotta intercept the aliens , you know! You been watching the X-Files again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 (edited) I often used to wonder how come the thrust nozzles didn't melt? I'm still amazed that regenerative cooling works when there is such intense heat involved? Everything (Orbiter/tank/boosters) bends at start up throttle then comes back to vertical before they (blow the bolts)let the handbrake off. Watch the tail fin at 16 to 19 seconds. The bell nozzle ridges also have to flex ! Real P-O-W-E-R ! Edited May 20, 2011 by HAM2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted May 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 That's not bending. The nozzles are on a gimble. This is how they balance and steer the shuttle. Why don't the nozzles melt? Well they're cooled. The LOX is fed thru' them prior to being mixed with the fuel. This was Goddards big breakthrough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) That's not bending. The nozzles are on a gimble. This is how they balance and steer the shuttle. Why don't the nozzles melt? Well they're cooled. The LOX is fed thru' them prior to being mixed with the fuel. This was Goddards big breakthrough. It does seem as though the nozzle sorta goes "wow,wow,wow" as the motor comes up to full power. Not totally sure about the physics on this, if the total thrust load is directly transmitted to the aircraft through the nozzles and gimbals. I would think so, as there seems no other backpressure, simply thrust alone? It seems they bring the things up to a perfict mix and temp, similar to an afterburner state on a jet turbine. An even more impressive sight is one of these things coming back in! I did get to catch one, cannot recall the specifics, but come accross Texas at maybe 60-80k ft. like a meteor, horizon to horizon on maybe 20 seconds, landing in FL some 12 or so minutes later. Just nuts! Not for me! There may be still a few chunks of the one out in the east of here. It seems to me that Rutan has made strides as an example to NASA on slow re-entry vehicles, yet not sure about allthat. Edited May 21, 2011 by copemech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted May 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 It does seem as though the nozzle sorta goes "wow,wow,wow" as the motor comes up to full power. Not totally sure about the physics on this, if the total thrust load is directly transmitted to the aircraft through the nozzles and gimbals. I would think so, as there seems no other backpressure, simply thrust alone? It seems they bring the things up to a perfict mix and temp, similar to an afterburner state on a jet turbine. I'm not sure about this Copey. I've watched the phenomena with interest many times and I suspect it's a resonance. It may be related to the dancing diamonds you see when an afterburner is in full stride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 I think were at cross purposes here Tim, Regenerative Cooling is the name for the LOX cooling. I think the second video I used was mis-leading...this is the scary bending effect I was talking about ( I know it's a simulation but I can't find any NASA footage) Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted May 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 I think the second video I used was mis-leading...this is the scary bending effect I was talking about It was only after I posted and looked at the vid again I realised that you were talking about the bell distorting during startup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) Taking the wife to KSC was a no,no....I was ready to risk a divorce just to stay longer. The kids were happy enough with the 'hands-on-displays/ meet an astronaut/rocket garden' , but I'm such an anorak I could have sat through all of the mini-lectures and Q+A sessions. There was so much to take in, on such a large scale. I think the future looks pretty bleak for KSC now that the main attraction (STS) has been canned Whilst I'm in awe of the science,technology and logistics involved, I am stunned by the bravery involved in this (despite all the counter-claims) very risky business. E.G. What must it have been like re-entering the atmosphere in a tiny,tiny capsule ?..all that noise and heat in close proximity to your backside...anyway how come it flies blunt end (heat-shield)first,why wouldn't it flip round? The details of the Gus Grissom (RIP)Apollo launch-pad fire are barely re-printable, whilst NASA tried to downplay the horror of the incident, we know that a pressured o2 line was severed and ignited, lashing around like a light-sabre.Gus and his crew had nowhere to run! Anyone who's ever used an oxy-acetylene torch will know what that could do to human flesh. (Did I mention )The fact that the whole STS assembly rocks away then back to vertical (after ignition) at launch so the bolts only have a window of micro-seconds to release at the correct moment!! The fact that once lit those SRBs ( just big fireworks !) can't be turned off !! Although their fuel is packed so that at max dynamic pressure they do throttle back...a bit !! Speaking of which, at about T+ 1 min SSMEs and SRBs are throttled back so that the shuttle doesn't rip itself apart(!!) because the atmosphere is still too dense for full speed. Launch vehicles that would take at least 10 mins to exit ,on the pad,in an emergency !! I won't even go into failed o-rings/insulation tiles/ water suppression to stop the launch pad and launch vehicle from accoustic damage. I always wanted to be an astronaut but a trip to Kennedy frightened me out of that.I haven't got the brains and certainly don't have the bottle ! Tim, Thanks for the opportunity to waffle. Wayne Edited May 21, 2011 by HAM2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 I'm not sure about this Copey. I've watched the phenomena with interest many times and I suspect it's a resonance. It may be related to the dancing diamonds you see when an afterburner is in full stride. Well, aside from the flex and stuff, would you not think that the thrust force is physically transmitted to the structure directly through the nozzles and gimbals? Now that sorta means they would need to be able to support the weight of the vehicle, plus quite a bit to accellerate it. Although the weight is not applied to them directly, the load must be? This seem to be a bit like standing on a beer can! Am I wrong here or what? At least it is probably a titanium ally beer can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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