Marking regulation

[Tr1AL]

I just watched a video of day 3 of the SSDT is this event stop allowed these days? .

[faussy]

🤣 no. Stop is a five. That doesnt stop the top guys doing it and getting away with it though

[Tr1AL]

Trials marking is out of the window, not surprising I suppose when the World seems to be full of liars as in people lying to themselves such as what the meaning of the word non-stop is. The spectators at the SSDT all clapping the many obvious 5 marks lost of the majority of the entry , perhaps people think that if a rider manages to travel from the section start to section ends cards means that the 5 marks lost for stopping/reversing 20 times while doing that should not apply because they feel sorry for them. Well as they say 'nevermind'.

[trapezeartist]

I've watched a lot of SSDT video and virtually every rider is making momentary stops. Giving them all a 5 would ruin the event because there would be no difference in score between a good performance and a total failure. I think nearly all riders, observers and spectators understand the difference between those marginal stops and a failure that should be marked a 5.

[Tr1AL]

9 hours ago, trapezeartist said:

I've watched a lot of SSDT video and virtually every rider is making momentary stops. Giving them all a 5 would ruin the event because there would be no difference in score between a good performance and a total failure. I think nearly all riders, observers and spectators understand the difference between those marginal stops and a failure that should be marked a 5.

Hello trapezeartist to me that interpretation  sounds very similar to the no stop rules in the past in the FIM WTC. When will this nonsense stop if they just made all trials stop allowed it would help every one because if you momentarily stop then you have stopped and if the trial is under no stop allowed rules then the mark is 5 lost surely .  if you are flexible about this then the rule is not being followed and if you are going to let people stop without penalty then you are using the rules of stop allowed. No wonder the World is in the state it is in after all no one seems to know what a woman is these days so it is no wonder they think that stopping is exactly the same as moving. I do not think their is much point to having the rules if you then move the goal posts around because you feel sorry for people because they have put a lot of effort into riding the section . I think it may be just me as I saw some riders at a club trial recently that were riding a no stop event but were fully stopping and hopping and also actually purposely following a line outside of the marked section in order to ride up a step on an easier trajectory this happened right in front of an observer and these rides were not marked as fives  , using your interpretation of the no stop rule I can now understand why this happened.  

Edited May 11 by Tr1AL

[lemur]

This right here is why I no longer want to check at an important trials event, far too much ambiguity around the rules and the rules keep changing to advantage the entertainment of the near non-existent observers.  The solution to the problem is in the building of the section, you can build a section that is suited to a no-stop ride and you can keep the perimeter tape far enough back from the ride line so that it never becomes a problem of somebody wanting or needing to cross it, you can lay out a section short enough to easy be ridden in an allocated time, or you can make a section so long that nobody can complete it in time. 

[Tr1AL]

@lemur I Absolutely agree with you regarding the points you make although speaking specifically on the SSDT 2025 out of 280 odd riders a lot of the sections over the week are really only suited to about 25% of that number hence the constant stopping that is seen in the videos perhaps it is time the vast majority of the entry were given their  own shorter more manageable sections within the same areas marked out for the 25% that actually can make a good attempt at the present more challenging route. that is obviously designed especially to suit approx 5 riders who are fighting for the win.

Edited May 11 by Tr1AL

[trapezeartist]

17 hours ago, Tr1AL said:

Hello trapezeartist to me that interpretation  sounds very similar to the no stop rules in the past in the FIM WTC. When will this nonsense stop if they just made all trials stop allowed it would help every one because if you momentarily stop then you have stopped and if the trial is under no stop allowed rules then the mark is 5 lost surely .  if you are flexible about this then the rule is not being followed and if you are going to let people stop without penalty then you are using the rules of stop allowed. No wonder the World is in the state it is in after all no one seems to know what a woman is these days so it is no wonder they think that stopping is exactly the same as moving. I do not think their is much point to having the rules if you then move the goal posts around because you feel sorry for people because they have put a lot of effort into riding the section . I think it may be just me as I saw some riders at a club trial recently that were riding a no stop event but were fully stopping and hopping and also actually purposely following a line outside of the marked section in order to ride up a step on an easier trajectory this happened right in front of an observer and these rides were not marked as fives  , using your interpretation of the no stop rule I can now understand why this happened.  

I am very comfortable with stop-allowed trials. At a higher level they do need a time limit, though that's probably not necessary at club level.

A few years back I observed at an Experts trial and the observers were specifically told to strictly enforce no-stop. The observers weren't happy at having to dish out 5s for what were very good rides, and obviously the riders weren't happy. Some were obviously trying to hold it in to avoid being seen as abusive to observers.

19 minutes ago, Tr1AL said:

@lemur I Absolutely agree with you regarding the points you make although speaking specifically on the SSDT 2025 out of 280 odd riders a lot of the sections over the week are really only suited to about 25% of that number hence the constant stopping that is seen in the videos perhaps it is time the vast majority of the entry were given their  own shorter more manageable sections within the same areas marked out for the 25% that actually can make a good attempt at the present more challenging route. that is obviously designed especially to suit approx 5 riders who are fighting for the win.

Now that really opens up a new can of worms. Personally I struggle to understand the fun of dropping over 100 marks every day, but the riders in that situation know what they've signed up for so I suppose they are happy with it. The SSDT is now almost unique in providing a single route for everyone. Whether that makes it an 'out-of-touch dinosaur' or a 'unique challenge' is a matter of personal opinion. Certainly an attempt to provide two routes would add massively to the complexity of the organisation and would require some regular sections to be replaced where there isn't two viable routes.

[on it]

On 5/10/2025 at 5:25 PM, trapezeartist said:

I've watched a lot of SSDT video and virtually every rider is making momentary stops. Giving them all a 5 would ruin the event because there would be no difference in score between a good performance and a total failure. I think nearly all riders, observers and spectators understand the difference between those marginal stops and a failure that should be marked a 5.

not a dig about ssdt   but  this is a big problem  with all non stop  trials !   if the riders  were given the score 5 not let off for momentary stops & hops yes a lot of 5s BUT  The sections might not be getting as daft .WHY ?  because clerks of the course would know that that section was to tight /hard  but he sees people with cleans 1s+2s  because they have not been marked too harsh  / allowed to stop & hop  . so what happens  --- clerk of the course thinks  that section was ok so we can make it a bit harder and tighter next time  resulting in more stopping and hopping , so what happens with the riders that try hard to non stop   they struggle 

[faussy]

20 hours ago, Tr1AL said:

@lemur I Absolutely agree with you regarding the points you make although speaking specifically on the SSDT 2025 out of 280 odd riders a lot of the sections over the week are really only suited to about 25% of that number hence the constant stopping that is seen in the videos perhaps it is time the vast majority of the entry were given their  own shorter more manageable sections within the same areas marked out for the 25% that actually can make a good attempt at the present more challenging route. that is obviously designed especially to suit approx 5 riders who are fighting for the win.

You suggest making two lines in the ssdt? The event is over subscribed every year, adding an extra line to accommodate the bottom half of the field would only dumb the event down 

[Tr1AL]

3 hours ago, faussy said:

You suggest making two lines in the ssdt? The event is over subscribed every year, adding an extra line to accommodate the bottom half of the field would only dumb the event down 

I understand your concern about ruining the event I am not suggesting two lines just have an exit point in the section before the super hard stuff for those that clearly are not at that level of riding, it would save time for all and be less of a farce. The real point is trouble with all  the stopping in the sections in a supposedly no stop marked trial the top riders can keep the bike going because they have the skills but also because of their fitness level being higher than the average rider. The two routes suggestion is only based on that or the easy way is just mark it stop allowed and the same at club trials that are run as no-stop , all I seem to see is people stopping but the results do not show those fives. To me that is just a farce what is the point of the rule if it is that flexible IE whatever you fancy.

Edited May 12 by Tr1AL

[faussy]

1 hour ago, Tr1AL said:

I understand your concern about ruining the event I am not suggesting two lines just have an exit point in the section before the super hard stuff for those that clearly are not at that level of riding, it would save time for all and be less of a farce. The real point is trouble with all  the stopping in the sections in a supposedly no stop marked trial the top riders can keep the bike going because they have the skills but also because of their fitness level being higher than the average rider. The two routes suggestion is only based on that or the easy way is just mark it stop allowed and the same at club trials that are run as no-stop , all I seem to see is people stopping but the results do not show those fives. To me that is just a farce what is the point of the rule if it is that flexible IE whatever you fancy.

Thats still two grades. The whole idea is to have everyone ride the same line, thats the whole point of the event. The guy who finishes 300th wants to ride the same sections that Dougie Lampkinn rode. Anyone who rides the ssdt knows exactly what they are signing up for. If they find it too hard, they don't return next year, and someone else takes their place. Putting in a route for people who find it too hard is what you do at your local club trial. 

Whether it's a 5 or not for stopping is up to the observer. Some will give it a five some won't. People have let longer and longer stops go unpunished every year since the no stop rule was introduced. Thats unavoidable. Whether one observer gives it as a five or not isnt really important, the key is to be consistent across the 300 riders riders through your section. 

Edited May 12 by faussy

[Tr1AL]

5 hours ago, faussy said:

Thats still two grades. The whole idea is to have everyone ride the same line, thats the whole point of the event. The guy who finishes 300th wants to ride the same sections that Dougie Lampkinn rode. Anyone who rides the ssdt knows exactly what they are signing up for. If they find it too hard, they don't return next year, and someone else takes their place. Putting in a route for people who find it too hard is what you do at your local club trial. 

Whether it's a 5 or not for stopping is up to the observer. Some will give it a five some won't. People have let longer and longer stops go unpunished every year since the no stop rule was introduced. Thats unavoidable. Whether one observer gives it as a five or not isnt really important, the key is to be consistent across the 300 riders riders through your section. 

You may find it hard to believe but I think you are absolutely right about not having another route and for all the reasons that you have listed .So to stop the farce of people stopping and observers allowing a 3 when they clearly fived it because they feel sorry for them just make the event stop allowed and there won't be any nonsense of making the rules up as they go along  or perhaps men can be women depending on who is deciding. Its all very confusing,  as they say rules are made for breaking. Best wishes Alan.

[faussy]

13 hours ago, Tr1AL said:

You may find it hard to believe but I think you are absolutely right about not having another route and for all the reasons that you have listed .So to stop the farce of people stopping and observers allowing a 3 when they clearly fived it because they feel sorry for them just make the event stop allowed and there won't be any nonsense of making the rules up as they go along  or perhaps men can be women depending on who is deciding. Its all very confusing,  as they say rules are made for breaking. Best wishes Alan.

This is one event that will never go stop allowed, its never been stop allowed even when the world championship was. Tradition. The only two options are accept that brief stops are now the norm, or reinforce the rules to riders and observers that no stops will be tolerated. I don't think it's that confusing, or making up of the rules. Stop isnt allowed, but slowly over the years longer and longer stops have been tolerated. This isnt specific to the ssdt, IMO this is standard practice from club trials right up to the world championship before it returned to stop allowed. 

[on it]

15 minutes ago, faussy said:

This is one event that will never go stop allowed, its never been stop allowed even when the world championship was. Tradition. The only two options are accept that brief stops are now the norm, or reinforce the rules to riders and observers that no stops will be tolerated. I don't think it's that confusing, or making up of the rules. Stop isnt allowed, but slowly over the years longer and longer stops have been tolerated. This isnt specific to the ssdt, IMO this is standard practice from club trials right up to the world championship before it returned to stop allowed. 

i think youll find the ssdt did go stop allowed 1990s and what a farce causing  entery dropped off , to see a farce  ---- jake millers chain comes off in a section on the nevis  bikes wedged on a rock he then gets his chain back on without getting off the bike  then off he sets up the section again ! That year there was just about delay on every section  due to riders stopping and hopping  causing ques