14 replies to this topic

[cunpr]

Dear Anyone,
Apologies if this has been covered before but I've searched the forum and been all over the MOT, DOT and DVLA web sites and can't get anything that gives a clear answer.

I want to ride my 1983 Sherpa T on the road. its never ever been registered so I will have to get a V5. I only want to use it during daylight hours. I opnly want to use it for short "hops" between off road sections/lanes etc

Registering the bike;
As far as I can make out it is clearly a trials bike and thus its exempt from the ECWTA and SVA so I can register it with DVLA as exempt.

Road Tax
I will have to tax it as a motorcycle - no exemption.

MOT
it will have to have an MOT.
The question is what does it need to be fitted with to pass the M.O.T? As far as I can determine it will need ;

a continuos tone horn.
a chain guard

Do I need to fit lights and if so which ones? My reading is that for sunrise to sunset use I can get by with no lights.

Reflectors?



Other legal stuff,
I know I need a speedo fitted (but not necessarily working).


Many thanks and appologies again as I'm sure its been done before but I couldn't find teh answers.
Paul Cundy

Edited by cunpr, 21 August 2009 - 09:54 AM.

[jimw]

Hi Paul,

As an aside you haven't got a penchant for medicine, IT and Nobles have you?

Regards

Jim

PS I can assure you that I can be of no practical help whatsoever regarding your question but I am confident the great and good on this site will point you in the right direction.

Edited by jimw, 21 August 2009 - 01:53 PM.

[2/4]

Registering the bike;
As far as I can make out it is clearly a trials bike and thus its exempt from the ECWTA and SVA so I can register it with DVLA as exempt.

Road Tax
I will have to tax it as a motorcycle - no exemption.


Not just sure what ECWTA and SVA stand for but I can't see that it will be exempt from anything much on the basis of being a trials bike as there is only one class, that being "bicycle" which does not differentiate on the basis of intended use?

[cunpr]

jimw, on Aug 21 2009, 02:10 PM, said:

Hi Paul,

As an aside you haven't got a penchant for medicine, IT and Nobles have you?

Regards

Jim

PS I can assure that I can be of no practical help whatsoever regarding your question but I am confident the great and good on this site will point you in the right direction.

Dear Jim,
Indeed 'tis me. Who are you and how do you know me? Hoping your second assertion is correct.
Regards
Paul C

[Woody]

You need the continuous tone horn (bicycle will do) and a speedo, doesn't have to work as you say, they just enter 0 or not recorded or something like that for the mielage on the MOT. Chainguard I'm not sure about, I've never had one.

That's it legally but, it will depend on your test station. There are one or two that won't do them without lights as they don't know the law. Some also insist on a rear reflector - what use that is in daylight hours is beyond me. Some don't like the 'not for road use in USA and Canada' wording on Michelin tyres and seem to think that it somehow applies to the UK. Some don't like not for road use on a tail pipe but a sticker takes care of that. Try to find a test station in your area that someone else has used for trials bikes (successfully that is....)

Once you have the MOT you can get it registered and Bultaco UK, The Vintage Motorcycle Club or Sammy Miller will give you a dating certificate so you can get an age related plate. As it is not a kit or a new vehicle (or manufactured since the SVA regs came in) it is not subject to SVA and all that stuff.

[jimw]

cunpr, on Aug 21 2009, 02:40 PM, said:

Dear Jim,
Indeed 'tis me. Who are you and how do you know me? Hoping your second assertion is correct.

I've sent you an email

Jim

Edited by jimw, 21 August 2009 - 01:52 PM.

[cunpr]

Woody, on Aug 21 2009, 02:47 PM, said:

You need the continuous tone horn (bicycle will do) and a speedo, doesn't have to work as you say, they just enter 0 or not recorded or something like that for the mielage on the MOT. Chainguard I'm not sure about, I've never had one.

That's it legally but, it will depend on your test station. There are one or two that won't do them without lights as they don't know the law. Some also insist on a rear reflector - what use that is in daylight hours is beyond me. Some don't like the 'not for road use in USA and Canada' wording on Michelin tyres and seem to think that it somehow applies to the UK. Some don't like not for road use on a tail pipe but a sticker takes care of that. Try to find a test station in your area that someone else has used for trials bikes (successfully that is....)

Once you have the MOT you can get it registered and Bultaco UK, The Vintage Motorcycle Club or Sammy Miller will give you a dating certificate so you can get an age related plate. As it is not a kit or a new vehicle (or manufactured since the SVA regs came in) it is not subject to SVA and all that stuff.

Dear Woody
Many thanks indeed.
I shall search out my local MOT station.
Regards
Paul C

[Pete_Scorpa3]

As woody said.
No problems with our local tester, just make sure the rear number plate is 100% legal on the day.

Pete

[Brumbie59]

Sorry to high jack this thread but could someone please confirm;

bicycle horn/contiuous tone = bulb horn?

rear number plate; mmm mine has matt black paint on mudgaurd with white lettering, oh and reflector = OK?

Speedo must be fitted even if it does not work??? that is plain dumb; my '49 Matchless was only fitted with a speedo as an optional extra, so I don't need one?.

The bike has been road reg'd at some point as I have a log book and the bike is on a SORN.

Any thoughts?.

[totalshell]

a bulb horn is not continuos it goes parp an electric horn goes on and on and on.
you have to disply the registration number it does not have to be the right size or colour. ( it does once you ride it on the road)
you do not need a speedo to pass the test but again its a legal requirement to have one when riding the bike on the road.
you do not need a rear reflector for a daylight only mot

[Triple_X]

I am just about to put my Sherpa model 91 on the Road.

Local DVLA were most helpful. £55 registration fee and no road tax required as it is pre 1971 and classified as HISTORIC
Filled in the correct form and all I need is an MOT, Cert of insurance and £55.

Re the MOT. It will be MOT'd against the chassis number, as there is no reg number as yet. Therefore no number plate to check.

It does not need lights but it must have a speedo and electric horn (cycle)

No problem so far, however Insurance companies reluctant to issue a cover note without reg number!!!!!!

Solution more calls to the insurance company or other companies.

I will get there just takes time

Best of luck.

Martin

[totalshell]

this is where your local insurance agent/ man comes up trumps.. pop into the shop face to face and explain what you want and why
my local guy will write me a cover note for 30 days using the frame number take a years premium ( 60 - 100 quid) and be slow sending off to the ins. company normally within a week i pop back with my reg number and bobs your uncle..

[Stickinthemud]

Bulb horns are legal if the m'bike was 'first used before' 1st Aug 1973.
The MOTUK site details all the requirements for cars and bikes and how to get a replacement MoT if you lose it.

Click for Horn Regs

Click for Reflector regs

And for those with a really old machine!!!

Vehicles certified by the London Science Museum as being designed before 1 January 1905 and constructed before 31 December 1905 can have a gong, bell or siren audible warning.

Its all on there!!!

Black and white number plates?

Motor bicycles manufactured before 1 January 1973 may have registration plates displaying white, grey or silver characters on a black background.

Can't find any requirement for chain guards other than - if they are fitted they will fail for - c. a drive chain/belt guard, insecure or fouling another component

Edited by Stickinthemud, 10 September 2009 - 01:38 PM.

[cunpr]

Stickinthemud, on Sep 10 2009, 02:27 PM, said:

Bulb horns are legal if the m'bike was 'first used before' 1st Aug 1973.
The MOTUK site details all the requirements for cars and bikes and how to get a replacement MoT if you lose it.

Click for Horn Regs

Click for Reflector regs

And for those with a really old machine!!!

Vehicles certified by the London Science Museum as being designed before 1 January 1905 and constructed before 31 December 1905 can have a gong, bell or siren audible warning.

Its all on there!!!

Black and white number plates?

Motor bicycles manufactured before 1 January 1973 may have registration plates displaying white, grey or silver characters on a black background.

Can't find any requirement for chain guards other than - if they are fitted they will fail for - c. a drive chain/belt guard, insecure or fouling another component

Dear Stuckinthemud,
Many thanks. I did in fact look over that web site but obviously didn't look hard enough. A very usefull manual which as you say has it all in black and white. Incidentaly I also made contact with the D.O.T and they were very helpfull with an advice sheet but it didn't have the crucial "how to examine" and "why they fail" columns that this web site has.

Its now very clear.

No lights needed.

No reflector needed.

Horn must be capable of continous tone


Regards
Paul C

[max1956bikes]

im a mot tester my book is same as that on vosa web site.so as long as you go by book the bike will pass a mot.no mot station can fail bike by making up new things as vosa computer wont let us. i see chain gaurd if fitted must be secure,but if not fitted cannot fail mot.
by push bike type horn they have there own battery and are continuos so no problem.
with no lights fitted you should get an advise saying that,this covers the tester.in fact you can have lights fitted if masked up will still pass mot.