25 replies to this topic

[lastplacebrad]

I was riding (badly )at scarboro trial on sunday and there was a chap riding a 250 triumph called Duncan McDonald who won the clubman B ,
The frame on his bike (as well as the rest of the bike )looked very trick , i just wondered if anyone knows Duncan or knows the bike as i wondered if the frame was a "stock" item or some kind of fancy aftermarket jobbie

[cleanorbust]

I was also riding at Scarborough and noticed Duncan MacDonald had won the Clubman B class on his Cub. If I'm not mistaken, I remember him from the mid-1970s era, I think, when he regularly rode an Ossa-powered bike in the Scottish with his own monocoque frame and other mods.

Personally, I think it's great that someone from that era can still put it across the youngsters and can show that a bike as outwardly unsuitable as a Cub can compete with and beat the latest in European technology. Just goes to show that a good rider a) never really loses it and can be good on anything. Who really needs to upgrade from an 04 bike to an 05?

[g4321]

Quote

if anyone knows Duncan or knows the bike as i wondered if the frame was a "stock" item or some kind of fancy aftermarket jobbie

I dont know Duncan but suspect its the same chap who builds the ARMAC framed Tiger Cub. This bike is detailed/tested in The Classic Motorcycle, September 2003, just so happens I was browsing through this magazine last night I recognised the name.

He is the same chap who rode the Scottish on a Monocoque Ossa in the 1975 Scottish.

Theree are contact details in the magazine - dont know if they are still current so let me know if you want them.

Gordon

[jordi]

I can remember Duncan from the mid 70s and his Ossa powered monocque
special. Very striking loking bike for the time. I was in the North Wales area then and he was a fairly regular at centre trials, if I am not mistaken I think he went onto make mountain bikes.

[Vinnied]

cleanorbust, on Mar 8 2005, 04:44 PM, said:

Just goes to show that a good rider a) never really loses it and can be good on anything.

Very true cleanorbust


Vinnied

[lastplacebrad]

cleanorbust, on Mar 8 2005, 04:44 PM, said:

Personally, I think it's great that someone from that era can still put it across the youngsters and can show that a bike as outwardly unsuitable as a Cub can compete with and beat the latest in European technology. Just goes to show that a good rider a) never really loses it and can be good on anything.  Who really needs to upgrade from an 04 bike to an 05?

Wow , what a response ! i,m not looking at building a cub i just enjoyed watching him ride , it was a bit like watching Wayne Braybrook ride an enduro bike , he rides with an almost text book riding style , everything seeming almost exagerated .
Also the bike really was a thing of beauty ,such simpilicity combined with obvious engineering prowess , i suppose it is what makes our sport so brilliant with such varied machinery being ridden and winning , if not at the top level but at a centre trial against (as cleanorbust says )much lighter(?)and more modern bikes !

[lastplacebrad]

Just out of interest what would something like that weigh
also are they expensive to build to a reasonable spec ?

[lastplacebrad]

HondaRS, on Mar 9 2005, 03:02 PM, said:

Reasonable Armac Cub will cost around £4000..............up to £8-10k for a really trick lightwieght one!

WOW !! and what would that weigh approx ?

Edited by lastplacebrad, 09 March 2005 - 04:34 PM.

[g4321]

From 2003 Classic Motorcycle test - so slightly out of date

Armac Cub Frame Kit

Main Frame - £395
Swinging Arm - £195
Sub Frame - £315
Fuel Tank - £185

(In the test Duncan is quoted as reckoning his cub weighs 175lbs (79.5kg if you are that way inclined!)

Not a heavy bike then

Gordon

Edited by g4321, 09 March 2005 - 06:09 PM.

[steve]

Well said HondaRS

Can anyone post or send me some pictures of the ARMAC Cub?

Edited by steve, 09 March 2005 - 09:51 PM.

[hrc1]

Presumeably not an Armac, but interesting all the same. Is this still in action? Snapped at the Reeth in 03. Btw was looking at Mick Grants cub last w/end, very neat & slim , and quite posibly an Armac? There were also some Otter framed cubs there too.

[TrialsRfun]

What a superb piece of engineering but this could never be passed off as p65 but what a machine.
British bike trials do have a problem with very competitive modified machines which offer usually less weight & much improved steering etc, this puts the genuine article at a severe disadvantage and I think is reducing entries in these events.
But everyone wants their bike to start,run & ride well so I guess that we are stuck with this problem however there is an easy way out if all P65/British bike trials organisers laid out all the sections in a more traditional way the riders of these modified machines would find there advantage reduced (the harder the section the bigger the gain with a trick bike) so that once again real bikes would be able to compete on much more equal terms this could only be good for the sport.
It is not a new problem in the 1930s Raymond Mays produced 12 ERA race cars to compete against the German Mercedes & Auto Union racers that were cleaning up at the time these cars are still about, all 13 are accounted for. Yes it is true read the book.

[steve]

Who designed the ARMAC chassis and when? Is it a replica of something that was available in the 60's therefore in keeping with the spirit of pre 65 trials. Or is it a modern design?

Looking at the disc brake model above I am interested to see where the oil tank is. Logic would suggest that it's held within the top tube however I notice a second outlet on the fuel tank, perhaps the tank has an oil compartment within it?
I am considering doing this in a standard Steel cub tank, I would like to keep the look of the bike original but save a bit of weight and free up the space under the seat for a neat silencer. What do you think guys?

[bikespace]

I can't believe that Pre-65 has gone this far, I think it's pathetic. Fair enough if you want to develop a "special" that may be a fun toy, perhaps as an engineering showpiece, but ride out of class.
Surely the "spirit of pre-65" is riding a pre-65 bike, like one you could ride in the 60's.
I'd feel like a cheat riding some of these cubs. Once you let the rules slip, it's just going to avalanche.
The enjoyment for me, even in twinshock would be to ride a bog standard bike (or with mods available at the time), and see how competitive you could be amongst other similar bikes and even modern bikes.
In my view it'll be the thing that kills pre-65 off, except for those who can afford to pay for it - It certainly takes the spirit away anyway.
For me, it ceases to be a sport if you have to buy your way there, but it doesn't seem to matter these days. I know there's plenty of examples of this in other sports, Chelsea for example, but it seems that pre-65 trials has the ability to apply the rules without the inclination.
Is this mid life crisis driving the need to win just one more time?

[g4321]

Quote

  I can't believe that Pre-65 has gone this far, I think it's pathetic. Fair enough if you want to develop a "special" that may be a fun toy, perhaps as an engineering showpiece, but ride out of class.

I doubt very much that this cub engined special is competing in the P65 class. It will make a very interesting & competetive Twinshock bike & by the look of things would be competetive in a 'normal' trial.

Just because its got a cub engine dosn't mean its used in P65. I bet the rider has wiped the smile off many a modern bike rider with this bike.

Edited by g4321, 10 March 2005 - 10:49 PM.