I dont think thats strange. For sherco it is adding something they basically already have, but for torrot its new teritory in which they want to grow. Also gg has some technology on electric bikes, and a good opportunity to develop that (its the future). So they are willing to pay more. I think for gas gas this is/was the best of the three, beeing spannish and wanting to proceed the brand, keep the employees etc.
I hope they get everything going (fast) and dont have to many big problems with old supliers etc into getting parts.
GG's 'technology' on electric bikes is nothing special. It's certainly not ground breaking.
I get Sherco's offer. They know the market and could see a synergy and they probably thought they were doing all right with their bid. But this bid was insane! Where are they possibly going to get that investment back ?
Like I said, I will wait for someone from their company to put forward their vision on what they are going to do with GG to make that investment pay..
The Commercial Court of Girona awarded 9.66 million euros for the signing of bicycles and electric bikes Torrot productive unit Gas Gas, brand trial bike which has been in liquidation since early July. Torrot, based in Mataro, is committed to investing in the Salt factory to 13 million euros over the next three years to revive the plant. The signing of electric vehicles was the one with the highest bid. It was followed by the investment fund WRI proposed 7.02 million euros, and that of another manufacturer in the industry, Sherco, which offered 2.66 million. Of the total sum, 6.38 million euros will be used to cover part of the debt of Gas Gas. The company owes more than 40 million euros at Banco Sabadell, BBVA, CaixaBank, ING and the Catalan Institute of Finance (ICF). Commitments that led him to stop production in January, when he entered preconcurso creditors. The staff of 93 workers is no activity since then. First, with paid and then leave, claiming unemployment benefit. Among the offers submitted, that of Torrot was preferred by workers. The chairman of the company, Pere Brangolí, said Monday Europa Press that employees are "satisfied" with the judge's decision. The viability plan Torrot surrogacy involves 55 workers and reinstate the commitment of the rest in the next 18 months up to a staff of 82 people. Brangolí added that "will have to continue negotiating with the new owners" conditions.
This is just mental ! What the hell do they see in it to pay that much money?. I reckon Sherco were pushing it at 2.66 million ! Hopefully at some point, someone will explain the vision and it will all makes sense ! .
€9.7 Million WTF ! are they insane?? I even thought the Sherco bid was even a bit steep but at least they know what they are doing ! Why would Torrot want a non-electric motorbike company?
Vertigo have maintained all along that their business model is to offer a machine with a high spec but with other extras that will come as a result of being 'part of the Vertigo family' . I do not know what they are as yet but it is priced to reflect that.
As a completely new bike, it needs time to build loyalty to the brand so lets see how it goes
I think you forget parts for all 8000 bikes a year sold in the past!
Absolutely ! -- I am still struggling with the idea that 8000 trials bikes are sold worldwide per year though! I would have put it nearer to 3 - 4000 as a guess ?
TMX article today quotes 10 bikes per day. 225 working days per year = 2,250 bikes p.a.
Todo trial recently published survey puts the market at 8,000 bikes.
2,250 represents 28% of 8,000; hence around 25% based on the two published sources.
Thanks for that 8000 bikes a year puts the trials market at around £45 Million! and with clothes etc , That must up it to £50 Million+ ! Who said there wasn't any money in trials ?
I have read that Vertigo are basing their plans on a production capacity of ten bikes per day.
If this operates at full capacity it would equate to a global market share of around 25%
2500 bikes and this is just a quarter of the market ? So obviously, someone puts the market at 10,000 bikes per annum ! I certainly don't feel it is anywhere like that high. Where is the data to support that please?
You've obviously got a vested interest in this bike which is fine, but raga is one hell of a rider, the bike is pretty much a copy of a gasser in dimensions and specs so there is a great oppourtunity for TRS to fill a gap. Pre Sales mean nothing till there are bikes to buy and they perform as they should.
My only interest in the bike is that Ross Danby will be riding one so of course I want to see him and the bike do well in that respect, but I am not at this moment in time a shareholder in the company so I do not currently have any financial interest as such if that what you were referring to.
I am not sure why you say it is a copy of a gasser as it looks nothing like one, although if it was, it wouldn't be a bad place to start! but what I do know is it has gasser like power which a lot of punters will be familiar with when they try one so I hope it does well
Just for clarity i have said it is impressive. All im trying to get across is that if it was rubbish initially they / he wouldn't say so in a video, thats not the same as saying it actually was rubbish at any point. I do have the capacity to be cynical occasionally
Yes you did say it was impressive My point above was if Raga said the bike was amazing then dropped off the leader board into oblivion, we would say that the bike is crap and he is just saying that ( as you said) but the results weren't that at all, so if he said it's good then delivers the goods as he did, we are more likely to believe he is speaking the truth.
I understand that pre-sales of the bike have been impressive so that would suggest that punters must have been impressed with what they have seen thus far..
Can we a bit realistic here. Anyone expecting him to say its rubbish we have been working on it for months ?
It is impressive and i hope they sell well but its just pr speak.
Alonso says his McLaren Honda is rubbish along with Jenson Button saying the same and you can't argue with that looking at the cars performance, but the difference here is Raga has had little time on the bike and it's been business as usual in relation to his riding performance. If the bike was actually rubbish, he wouldn't of been able to perform at that level so quickly would he?
He makes reference to 3 key things in the interview. The power, the suspension and the clutch control. All of which he says it just about spot on. As I have mentioned before, Ross Danby has been over to Spain and ridden one and reported back that the bike had plenty of power and it's power delivery was very much like a gasser, hence the reason I said any gasser riders now looking for another bike, should try one of these before they make their decision.
I do have to add ... Does it really matter to any of us what Bou gets paid ?????
Yes! Because as I mentioned earlier, if the top trials rider in the world can command that much money, then it would be worth investing in an upcoming youth rider if they showed enough promise to get to WTC champion. Bou isn't going to be around for ever is he ?
The reason I raised this thread was firstly to get a view on what people think about how much the top guys earn because everyone I have spoken to say there is no money in trials ( and that simply isn't the case in some aspects)
and secondly, if you take someone like Wiggy who has won both youth and junior world titles, the next step to win the WTC title has proven to be a massive step. This is the case with every UK rider including Dibs. So if you imagine how much time & money has been invested in these riders from themselves, their parents and their sponsors to get that far, then how do we get them that extra step to get to the top where the big money is to get some of that money back? For instance, if there was a company formed called wiggy ltd of which it could attract investors with a return on future income, if lets say world number 1 earnt a salary of 1 million Euros, then that would be quite a good potential investment should he get there. This is not my idea but I know in motorsport this has been done before. The money would be used for 100% rider development.
Now it's probably too late for these batch of riders, but riders like Iwan Roberts who is young enough to displace Bou at some point could be in the frame for something like this. He already has a fundraiser page on facebook but here we are talking investment for a return ! something much more worth considering maybe?
Let's say another firm could afford to pay Bou €100k. HRC could get his services easily for €120k,
Why then would Honda needlessly pay an extra €880k?
If Bou didn't like this deal, to who else could he sell his services?
Depends on how he negotiated his deal and if Honda wanted to ensure his services without question, then they would pay it. As I said, it's what they get in return which is an almost guaranteed world title for their brand. The money is pocket change to them. It also protects anyone else with big money coming in that would think about taking him away.
I would say he is almost certainly earning 500K+ just from wages alone.. (also I am talking euros not sterling)
Nowhere near 500k, there is a Honda lawnmower championship would that suggest they get paid a chunk out of the 64.9 billion, no, no no, trial is so small and most probably run for a year on less than Hondas f1 hospitality for one race
Of course you can guess like I can but what makes you so sure? Bou guarantees them World Championships and if you think about it, they cant buy that easily, unless they have Bou of course!
It doesn't matter how 'small' trials is, the sport has a world championship and they can have a world champion and with their available funds, they can pay him large sums to guarantee no one else could afford to entice him away. In fact, he could even be paid double that ! it's nothing to them but the marketing value is priceless so If he was paid 1 million it would still be good value.
You can't think about it in the way you and I see the sport of trials, this is much bigger than that for a company like Honda. IMHO
I would think that Bou must be the highest paid trials rider of all time so 500k+ is totally realistic and it wouldn't surprise me if Fujigas was second with something very substantial too. All funded by the wealth of Honda of course.. Other riders like Raga and Cabestany on something like 100 - 200 k year.
Edit : I just looked up Honda's financials and they turned over £64.9 Billion - 2014 !
How on earth would Bou make that?Honda aren't paying their WSBK riders 500k if they win the title,there is no way they'd pay that to win the WTC it makes no economic sense.
Trials is a relatively tiny market it's hard to see there being much more than half a dozen riders actually making any money from it,logically you put Bou at around 100k and work back sharply salary wise from there.The days of Spanish fag money are long gone,even Bou doesn't appear to be overflowing with corporate sponsors.
You really think Bou would get just 100k for winning world championships for Honda?
Not unlike most sports... there may be a few that make the big bucks but even if those guys aren't wise investors they will most likely need to do something in there 40s and 50s. Unless you are independently wealthy best to stay in school and have a career to fall back on. Given the work ethic of any top flight athlete they will most likely do well at most things that they really put their mind to. Having decent nest egg to get them started into a new direction after riding isn't the worse thing that could happen.
Ok so put some numbers to it , what would you say Bou, Cabestany and Raga would be paid annually ?
I guess the distinction is that an absolutely top line trials rider may make a comfortable living while he's riding, but unlike many other sports this won't set him up for life after he retires, and he is likely to need to look for another source of income in his mid 30s. And there are very few opportunities to continue to get an income from trials related activity. Running trials training sessions? OK as a (very) part time job. Opening a bike shop? Limited opportunities for profit these days. Importing bikes? Ouch, several recent painful experiences in that area. Doesn't leave much...
So what do you think someone like Bou or Cabestany would be paid ?
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GG's 'technology' on electric bikes is nothing special. It's certainly not ground breaking.
I get Sherco's offer. They know the market and could see a synergy and they probably thought they were doing all right with their bid. But this bid was insane! Where are they possibly going to get that investment back ?
Like I said, I will wait for someone from their company to put forward their vision on what they are going to do with GG to make that investment pay..