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Yes it is time for a change Lane! Let's get this proposal revised and get those who are to present it to the NATC on board and enthusiastic about it. It would make no sense to have the presenter only half-heartedly pitching this to the Board. We need fire and brimstone, and the ability to intelligently counter any concerns or misgivings concerning the plan. Andy's signature line about war and dishonor always strikes me as a masterful bit of oratory by a master of the craft, Winston Churchill. We need the presenter to possess some of those oratorial gifts, because then the possibility exists to sway some boardmembers who may be on the fence. I would hope that the merits of the proposal would be enough to get it passed but a truly knowledgeable presenter couldn't hurt. Let's get it done and get the presenter briefed ASAP.

Lane, I would be honored to help in any way I can with the NATC proposal! Although I'm not an English teacher or an academician I do take pride in the English language and try to do it justice whenever I write. Anytime you want to send me a draft of your proposal I'd immediately start working on it. I would like to help this sport grow and am willing to do anything in my capacity to make it so. Thanks for the kind words. I look forward to starting on that proposal. Please PM or email me. umpierre1@hotmail.com

Alan, that's a valid observation but the landscape today bears no resemblance to that which existed in the '70s and '80s with respect to media exposure, advertising, and most importantly, money.

Great posts Atom and Lane! I've been saying much the same thing since I started posting here. If we were to produce a World Champion the sport just might take off over here. To me it definitely has the "cool" factor and the "wow" factor it just doesn't have the "star power" right now. As Lane has said time and again, the NATC has provided the framework to produce the best elderly riders in the World. That's great, I'm an elderly newcomer to the sport and I'm glad they care about folks my age. But, I think that alot more could be done to support and promote our youngsters. I think that an American World Champion should be the highest goal of NATC. Not to beat Geoff Aaron, but to beat Raga, Lampkin, and Sanz. This sport deserves a chance to grow and make some money for all those who've worked so hard for so long. BTW Lane, David Beckham is a British football (soccer) star who married one of the Spice Girls I believe. He's always in the tabloids over there. Any chance of Pat Smage, or Ron Commo III marrying a famous singer or actress?

A US world champion sure wouldn't hurt though would it? Of course trials will never be as popular as the NFL but heck, it'd be great if it were as popular as monster truck racing, or FMX! If trials had as much sponsor support as FMX the product would be so much bigger and better exposed. Indoor trials has the biggest potential for growth in the US because events could be staged in nearly every minor league ballpark or soccer pitch across the nation. The action is exciting and with the parallel runoffs you get some head to head action. I for one would like to see the effect that a US world champ would have on the popularity of trials as a whole over here. Hopefully I won't have to wait too long.

I think you're right Atom. It would take hard work and perseverance to line up sponsorship to send our best over to Europe. But there is alot of money over here. I also couldn't agree more that an American winning the WTC would do more than anything else to rapidly grow trials in the US. Some don't believe that it would make a difference but I sure do. We don't like mediocrity over here very much..... except in our politicians it seems.

Kevin, I also live in MN and I've been saying to get involved in the political process if you want your politicians to represent YOU. You said it so well and folks need to hear that protesting after the fact rarely gets anything done. Be proactive and support the politicos that support you and educate those who may support you. All politics is local. Thanks for posting that.

Thanks for all your help guys. I took the forks completely apart and removed all the internals except for the 2 bushes in each fork. I then checked the action and found that the stiction is due to having slightly distorted upper fork tubes. Left side has about .007" of runout and the right is crushed slightly oval at a point about halfway through its travel. Checking on new upper tubes as we speak. Darn, more expensive than I'd like but what do you do?

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't these paolis have a spring in only one side? If so then each side takes a different quantity of oil. FWIW

Alan, it's still absurd because even your link doesn't say, as you do, that everyone under 18 should be on an 80. The link recommends a youth make a progression through displacement classes. Good idea I think. Mostly it's absurd because you don't believe it as stated many times in your posts. You've said our kids shouldn't be mandated to ride any specific displacement. I think we should listen to and learn from our European friends. Their system has seemed to work fairly well to produce WTC championships. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Alan, it's absurd because you don't believe it. It's absurd because you don't support a 125 class in the NATC as a waste of time and resources but a 80 class is a good idea. It's absurd because if you did believe it you, being a man of action, would have drawn up the perfect plan for presentation to NATC. And it's absurd because the point of a 125 NC is to get in line with the Europeans whose system is producing champions and our system isn't. Not even close. That's what it comes down to, our system doesn't translate on the world stage, either in form or in results. No arguing it, the very best we have produced would get poor results at the WTC level, he said it himself. Our NATC doesn't have the balls to do WHATEVER they think is required to beat the best out there. But they sure have made a bunch of old guys feel good by taking home alot of trophies. YIPEE!

A WTC with Americans winning would.

Once again Alan, the absurd. Make the class the bikes will follow. Happened in Spain, and in GB. Don't feel insulted, just realize that all the hard work done has resulted in mediocrity at the world level.

Duluth, with its 70,000 people and maybe 100,000 in the entire area managed to host 3 WTC events. Since the first one in '02 we've produced 1 HS champ and caused 4 people I know to get bikes. We 4 probably doubled the number of bike owners in this area. These are only the ones I know of, I'm sure there is more. How many local events would it have taken to double the ridership in the area? This to me is the draw that can only be experienced by having the very best compete in your area. How many local events have your local TV stations produced 30 minute programs for? Only the best get this kind of coverage and therefore get the general public interested. IMO, the NATC should spend NO time or energy for 40 year old guys like me to have a good time. They should spend ALL their time and treasure to make our kids the very best in the world. Old guys, even extremely talented old guys, aren't gonna draw a single outsider into this sport. Get our youngsters winning WTC titles and the media and the fans will bust down the door.

I didn't call HIM chickens**t, just his response! Big difference! You still haven't addressed the issues and quite frankly I don't ever expect you to. As for nothing happening, you're probably right with hidebound relics like you throwing up roadblocks to legitimate attempts at excellence and growth. Talk all you want about how much you do but it's not working. The sport is stagnant and not because of limited appeal. It's because of limited exposure. The kind you only get when you showcase the best and strive for excellence. Enjoy your local events and remember the impoverished importer!

This thread is about a 125 Nat'l C-ship. The work that ishy and everyone else has done for the sport of US trials is surely appreciated and by all accounts it is successful in providing competition and entertainment to those involved. If that is the intent of the NATC then cool. If the intent was to showcase and grow trials in the US then it hasn't been so successful, as evidenced by stagnant or declining club enrollment. If the NATC intent was to have an important and competitive Nat'l C-ship then they only partly succeeded, it is competitive but only among 5 people throughout a land of 280 million. Finally, if the intent of the NATC was to help produce the best trialers in the world then they have been a dismal failure. The proposal for a 125 Nat'l C-ship is a method some feel would help our youngsters better compete with the best. You may not agree that this is a viable method or even that there is no hope for a US born and bred world champion within the context of the NATC. This is fine but unfortunate IMO. Clearly what we have been doing in the US isn't working to produce elite class competitors. If the US being the best is important to you, it is to me, then the present system isn't doing the trick. When something isn't working to reach the ends I seek, then alternatives need to be explored. This is a search for alternatives. Duluth has hosted 3 WTCs in 4 years. We don't have a trials club within 200 miles of here. We have a miniscule trials community in comparison to some areas of the Country but Steve Ahlers wanted the worlds best to come to his backyard and he worked hard to make it happen. I'm proud to have helped him in a small way. The TTC is hosting one this year and I'm sure those folks are working hard to make it the best WTC ever. Great for TTC to host this because of all the hard work they do to train our youngsters. Did Portland ever host a WTC or does excellence not matter in Portland? Is there nobody in Portland who would like to see the worlds best in their backyard? Is nobody in Portland willing to do the work required to host a WTC event? I'll submit to you that 20 local trials events in Portland would do less to grow this sport than 1 WTC event. More and more I'm seeing that there is little interest in growing the sport. The status quo is fine. You profess love and admiration for those who sacrifice for this sport but doing what it takes to grow the sport and finally get these folks their just rewards is out of the question. To grow a sport you have to bring NEW people in and not just your own children. You have to convert the MXer, the mountain biker, the skateboarder, the librarian, and the stock car racer. These folk don't even hear about local trials events but they do hear about it when the WTC comes to town. When they see footage of the WTC riders on their local news they buy a ticket and then they tell a friend and then they buy a bike and then the sport grows. These outsiders couldn't care less about a bunch of talented old men and their families riding around on some rocks. The WTC got me and HATR hooked and many others in this area as well. We didn't even know there were trialers in this area until the WTC came to town. If you folks are happy with stagnant growth and impoverished importers then so be it but don't slam me for wanting something better. And advocating for it and working for it.

ishy, you come up with a post about pulling off a Nat'l Championship from scratch with no support from NATC or AMA and when the idiocy of this is pointed out and some legitimate questions are asked you get all petulant like my 4 year old. That's chickensh**!!!

I would like to volunteer to help with the writing of a presentation to the NATC for the adoption of a 125 Nat'l Championship. I can provide very little help with the specifics but I will help to put it in writing. I'll also help in any way that you veterans think I can. Doing what I can ishy.

The point is that many folks would like our National Trials organization to take the lead in producing a new generation of riders to legitimately challenge the worlds best. Very few have the financial wherewithal to pull off any sort of championship without the support and the insurance that the AMA provides, and by extension the NATC. Jeremy McGrath is doing just this in SX but he has $$$ and connections to go along with his considerable marketability. He'll make it happen! Trials needs the support of the AMA and the NATC. Are you folks resigned to the fact that producing world champions in the US is too daunting of a task to even attempt? Or is that goal not worthy? If Lanes plan was refined to address the issues pointed out last time it was presented would it get adopted? Would it get a fair hearing without any bias due to Lane being the prime author? Do you disagree with those like Mr. Lampkin, Nigel, and others who believe that a 125 Nat'l Championship would make our young riders better? If so why? If not why then not do it? The distances are too great you say, have an East and a West series like supercross lites (hate that name). Too few competitors? Possibly so initially. 5 pros contested the entire Nat'l Championship series last year. Will the NATC eliminate the Professional Nat'l Championship due to sparse participation? I'm confident you'd find 5 kids to compete in the East and 5 to compete in the West. Saying to take this idea and make it happen without any support from the AMA and NATC is a cop out. This idea needs to be presented at every opportunity to the NATC and the NATC needs to examine the merits of the plan and hammer out any differences and flesh out any lean areas. It surely is under no obligation to adopt anything but if a plan with some merit and a few holes is presented to the NATC shouldn't they at least discuss it and try to address the shortcomings?

I've said this before in reference to the Riverside County ordinance on other forums. People get all bent about these politicians making insane laws and they say they hate politics and want nothing to do with it. That is precisely the wrong thing to do! Politics may be distasteful and dastardly but it is a fact of life, always will be. I think it would be far more helpful if we were to get far MORE involved in politics and work hard to elect those who hold our views. If you can't find someone out there running for office who supports your issues then you may need to try to educate them or even consider a run yourself. People advocate sending money to these National organizations like the BRC or ORBA, that's fine but I think that money would be far more effective if it were spent in your own locality supporting sympathetic politicians. What happens in Riverside will make no difference to me in MN if we have elected politicians in MN who support our rights. Find local politicians who think like you and support them however you can. That will be the best defense against idiotic rules made by idiot politicians.

I liked Lanes suggestion that all the riders ride the Sportsman line and then the top 5 ride a separate, much harder line. The ElTrial format I think he called it. But I'm surely not the guy to answer that. As I said before, not many bikes now but create an attractive framework and the bikes will come. As for our geographical issues, MX has thrived while suffering the very same geographical challenge. Change nearly always entails hardship but given some of the benefits mentioned by Nigel, Mr. Lampkin, and others do you not agree that a properly devised 125 class may have some real benefits for our kids? Primarily if they have aspirations to compete against the worlds best someday. Or does the idea of Americans someday competing for and winning world championships hold no allure for you?

I have a '99 TXT321 and there seems to be a fair bit of initial stiction in my forks action. Once they start moving they seem to be fine but getting them to move from their resting position is harder than it should be. These forks are well used, is it possible that the internal bushes need replacement? How about too high of preload? I can easily shorten the preload spacer on my lathe but how much should be removed at a time? I bounce the bike before I tighten the fork pinch bolts for the axle but could it be misaligned? Any help would be appreciated.

I guess that's my point, to get the growth I'd like to see you need to be seeing riders at the WTC level. The WTC events have enough raw excitement to pull outsiders whereas anything less primarily interests those already interested in trials. I am surely not putting down anyone who rides any event by saying what they do is easy. I'm certain any 7 year old with a year of experience would smoke my old a**! That is until they hauled me to the hospital! I'm still gonna try it though by god! I have to get off my "I wish it would grow thing" and get into a "I wish I could ride thing"!

Chris, I will be attending some local trials this year and I hope they're not as boring as all you guys say! I've only seen the WTC and it was thrilling, all four rounds! We had crappy weather at least 3 of the days and the parking lot was full. On the nice day I saw folks that I knew had never seen any motorcycle race in their live spectating and screaming. Is trials really that boring to watch at any level below the WTC? That sucks! All the more reason to get the US to the WTC level I guess.

You may be correct about the number of 125's out there at present. That said, while I was scouring every trials website out there looking for a bike for HATR I noticed an awful lot of '03 and newer fullsize bikes out there for sale. A suprising number of '05 models. This leads me to believe that folks are buying new bikes relatively frequently. If they are buying a new bike every 2-3 years then they'd probably buy a 125 if regulations mandated that kids compete on a 125. Or to put it differently, if the rules made it attractive to compete on a 125. Parents, even trials parent I imagine, spend big bucks on their children. Partly to make the parent feel good and partly because the parent wants to live vicariously through their kids, sometimes unfortunately, with tragic and unintended results. The median income of trials parents can be no different than that of other motorcycle parents can it? I'm sure there are trials parents out there who buy their kid a car on the childs 16th birthday. Make a class, make it attractive, promote the benefits and the bikes will come IMO. The importers will bring in any bike that will sell. Nigel really points out the benefits to our kids in a way that I didn't even contemplate. Kids wringing the necks of their 125s better prepares them for the neck wringing they'll have to do on the big bikes if and when they get to WTC level. Excellent and insightful!