IMO the best training for downhill is mountain biking. MTB'ers are experts at descent - it's all we have after all..... Brake modulation is a key concept - the front brake is your best friend and your worst enemy on the mtb.... On the mtb there are very few circumstances where the descent is steep and sustained long enough that sliding the rear brake is required for some semblance of control (I ride in BC....I know what steep is....).
Trials, in my limited experience, is the same (as is Enduro). I always have the clutch out and utilize the engine as much as possible. If you're stalling it's probably because you're locking up your rear brake. Clutch in....no control....
Yes, sometimes the rear locks up (clutch in obviously) and it can be advantageous to slide the rear end around, but this is rarely required and IMO a somewhat uncontrolled technique. Personally (as on the mtb) I keep the front wheel weighted so I can modulate the front brake (without lockup) - the more both tires are turning the more control you have. If there's a turn I'll release the front brake and gingerly use the rear (usually not require 'cause I'm probably already creeping) - it's amazing how slowly you can creep down anything but a vertical descent with 'front brake modulation'...... Not sure if that's an actual term but it's what Endless Biking term the technique in their mtb courses.
They teach the technique on flat gravel initially. You learn where the lockup point is for each brake independently and then learn to maximize your braking without hitting that point. Then try it on a descent but it's critical that you keep the front weighted. I had to be shown this to get it......ass off the rear of the bike with straight arms (the old north shore style) is just bad technique.
Thanks for the advice. But there are circumstances where you have to pull the clutch in otherwise you'll stall, like a descent with a camber turn. I went out practicing today and used both the technique of engine braking without clutch and light use of both brakes as well as clutch in, hard on the front brake, light on the rear. Clutch out worked better on longer descents, it was simply easier to let the bike bounce down a slippery, wet and muddy bank than to use the brakes heavily. If you've got to throw the bike into a tight turn at the bottom of a bank pulling the clutch in seems to help. You can't really go super slow down a descent with the clutch out without risking stalling, it's not so bad if you've got a good run off. Horses for courses.
I've learned something new about MTB, I thought downhill guys had their asses right on the rear of the bike! Thanks again
I live in lovely wet Wales in the UK. I work as a clothing merchandiser at the moment, used to work in catering both as a chef and front of house as a waitress. My ambition is to sell paintings and drawings as a means of living, I'm still working on that. I enjoy horse riding with my mum and also enjoy riding a road bike quick, hehe.
Other than that, trials is awesome! Getting better all the time, this is a long term game that's for sure!
Thanks for the advice everyone. I do feel more comfortable pulling the clutch in and using the brakes, I feel like I've got more control over the speed that way. If there is a clear run off then using the engine braking and feathering the brakes seems like a good idea. Thanks again
I've been getting conflicting advice from different people, not sure what to do. I find I tend to stall the bike down hill with the clutch out, but my friends say keeping the clutch in will make it more likely to lock up the rear wheel...
Should be able to use just clutch on the flat with very tight turns. Front brake is useful turning on a hill, as is the rear in this situation. Some people do use front and rear brakes for slow speed stuff, experiment, watch some videos on the subject and find what works for you.
Maybe look for a second hand one that has been maintained for competitions? Bikes depreciate a lot, you could probably get one a couple of years old for a lot less than a new bike.
Plus new bikes off the shelf seem to need modifications any ways, at least that's the impression I get on these forums
Hi Burns. Spark plugs are lasting longer, cleaning out the motor more frequently. Can't get the rear brake lever where I'd like it, slightly above the peg and difficult to cover. She's also stalling down hills with the clutch pulled in, I've just been giving her a little bit of throttle to try to keep her going, so might need to fiddle with the clutch take up. Need new foot pegs when I can afford it, they are a little rounded and sloping downwards. There is also a slight delay with the power sometimes, I noticed it when practising wheelies. You can give her some throttle, release the clutch and sometimes nothing happens for 5 seconds or so.
I have recently bought some white alpinestars no stop trials boots. I ride a lot in streams and muddy conditions, at the moment I just wash off the boots with warm water and some cream cleaner at home. Not sure if this is good for longevity. I just wanted to ask how people look after their boots, do you guys use oil or saddle soap? Or just soapy water?
Trials must be hell starting out when you're that wee bit older?
Riders who have been around as long as me have so much advantage over older beginners.
76 was my first trial,Honda TL125 the bike weighed 100kg and we all rode the same route.
Thing is at 13 you didn't get tired and you just bounced and someone else was paying the bills.
Massive advantage and everything gets hardwired in to the brain so now you ride instinctively..
Much respect to anyone giving it a go in there 40s or older.
All the ones that keep at it do get it.
Best advice I can give is learn to walk before you try to run.
You're right, got to get the slow speed control down and basic turns.
I'm 24, I wish I had discovered trials when I was younger. Compared to someone who started in their early teens they've already got ten years more experience than I have. Plus when you get older you're a little less fearless I suppose.
Saying that, just gotta keep trying, getting there slowly
First trial age 12 on a ty80. It was a single route back then (34 years ago). I got through one section, in the results I got through two as one of the observers felt sorry for me. Id been riding since I was 10. It took another couple of years to clean a section in single route trials. At 16 things started to click. At 17 I rode the ssdt and have done all kinds of trials since and im still addicted.
Trials is hard to learn and in someways even harder to teach. Just keep at it, practice is everything but you need to ride with someone better than you now to help you learn.
Thanks, it's great you stuck at it and improved over the years. I think I underestimated it a bit thinking I could enter a trial with only a months experience. It was certainly a hard but good lesson to learn.
Thankfully I've got a friend with a trials bike who is also a beginner but is braver than me and will try out lines I didn't think to try! He's given me a lot more confidence to attempt obstacles and it's great to have a friend to practice with.
Ah, "woods". Take heart, I'd suggest that an easy woods section is probably harder for the beginner than an equivalently easy rocky section. As well as all the balance and use of controls you probably also have to find grip whereas that's usually less of a problem on the right kind of rock section.
Thirty-odd years ago, during the Bath Two Day (regrettably no more), we were trying to persuade a Centre champion from the south west area that he should be doing the Scottish, so impressed were we with his ability to find grip, but he thought rocks would be too hard. Our opinion was that if you can find grip in "English" mud and woods then rocks are easy to adapt to compared to going the other way.
Stick at it.
Woods are especially difficult on a wet day, and this time of the year too with all the leaves on the ground, leaves can hide a lot... Rocks seem to be about confidence, a decent amount of speed/ momentum, smoothness and body positioning. Hell, a lot of things seem to be about that, but it's easier said than done. Thanks for the encouragement
Heather,
Pic 1 was a thorn in our side for months when we started! It is about a 2 ft shear drop followed by a rocky creek floor to ride over (Pic 2)
It took months and some advice from people in here how to approach shear drops and go over them before I attempted it. I eventually did go down it and now go down that section regularly for a 0.
It was a psychological barrier but I needed confidence to do it! That came with some more practice going down much smaller drop-offs and building up to the bigger ones... and technique!
After my wife saw me going down that section she eventually tried it... she was very nervous the first time and had to lower the bike down the drop using front brake and feet on ground.... then dabbed all through the rocky section but didn't fall down.
She has done it only 3 times now with the rocky section dab free and she is building up to the drop off to eventually ride over it verses lowering the bike down it.
It can take a bit of time sometimes... but in the end you will be amazed how quick you start catching up to the abilities of the bike!
Going across the face of a hill and turning is a scary one at times! Cindy was practicing at our favourite hill and there is a tree stump about 2 yards up a steep bank and we go up the left side of the tree stump... static for split second or two at the stump then go around the stump and back down the hill. 3 or 4 times around the left and then swap top 3 or 4 times around the right. You have to hang ya bum out reasonably far to turn and static or you will fall downhill... which is what happened to Cindy! She went to static at the stump but not enough bum out so fell down the hill... all I heard was the smack of the helmet on the side of the stump as she went down!
The lanyard did its job and shut the motor off... she was ok just a little shaken up! I parked my bike and raced to her as she was getting up.... she says " I think I dented the stump with my head!" I said "Yep! Its got a 30 degree lean now"!
She then said "My bum was not far enough out was it?" I said "nope!"
That particular fall was straight down to basic fig 8 technique or more correctly the lack of it. Hundreds and hundreds of fig 8's later she goes around that same stump with ease and has never fallen there again. She actually takes a harder route to it by going up beside a boulder first then around stump.
As a side note... even when doing some stuff around home we have a rule... if the engine is to be started you have to have a helmet on!!! Don't be tempted to its only 5 minutes it will be right... if you dont already... once engine started to do something, helmet on!
Don't be in too much of a rush to get through the beginner stage... its a fun time and one of the best times to look back on as thats where most of the funny stories about misadventures come from!!!
Hey Mags. That looks like quite a drop off, it's surprising how intimidating they are when you're on the bike and faced with the obstacle. You can do all the reading, watch all the videos but it's a different matter actually carrying out a technique.
Going down hill, turning and going back up isn't so bad. It's turning maybe near the top of the hill to go back down is the problem, getting your weight in the right place is hard, at least turning into the hill the tyre has something to bite against, if you get what I mean? Good job Cindy was wearing a helmet when that happened, glad she was alright.
Just another our note, our club has always had good women riders. We`ve had some that rode the Scottish and several more that has ridden the Women`s rounds and several times the TDN team. Not bad from a small state in the USA. Keep at it, you never know how good you might end up being!
Hart Village near Hartlepool. The year was 1980 and C Class was beckoning. Walked the sections with my brother and parents and remember being quite fazed by it all. I can also remember it taking what seemed like a week for the trial to start. I swear we must have arrived at about 5am for what was probably a 10am start time!
All I wanted to do was get the first trial out of the way with as my nerves were shot to bits. Section 1 was where my TY80 Whitehawk turned in to a Sherman Tank because no matter how I rode it and how relaxed I tried to be that thing felt like it weighed about 16 tonnes. The rest was a blur, albeit a shortened one. It was a four lap trial and I only completed three. Not by choice though, I just forgot to do four!
After that first schoolboy trial I knew what to expect and things definitely got a whole lot better after that rather nervous first step into trialdom.
Stick at it. It gets easier/better and certainly gets a lot more fun. Confidence will come with time and remember, one step at a time. Find a short hill first, lean right back and let the bike do its stuff. Just be careful not to use too much front brake going downhill!
I feel the same way about the trial I went to, in that I've got more of an idea of the level of difficulty. It's amazing what some of the boys on the twin shocks and classics consider easy (I think one of them laid out the course, not 100% sure) and make look so easy when they go round.
I'm going to try some hills tomorrow, starting with easier grassy banks with plenty of run off at the bottom, to the more difficult, root and stone filled kind. It is an illogical irrational type of fear, just got to try to tackle it without throwing myself too much into the deep end.
Turning on a camber is also awful, because as I turn I can feel my weight drop to the inside and fear toppling over the bike and down the hill. I'll need to practice turns on a camber too.
My first trial was in 1985,all I can remember about it was I rode an RL250 Beamish Suzuki and it was the Bath Peace trial.In a wood and fields about 300yds from where I'm sitting now.
I've had a couple of breaks from competing,but now I think I ride better than ever before,(Others may think differently...)mainly a confidence thing.Cant see myself giving up unless I have too.
Awesome, you know your bike and have confidence in yourself. And gotta love a Beamish, I really like the old school bikes. A friend let me have a put about his garden on a BSA, I think it was a 350, not 100% sure as I don't know classics. Very nicely set up though
Hi Heather, from the look of the photos in your other post the section layout was on the hard side with a lot of loose shale surfaces , possibly well above the level of a beginner on her first trial. Try to find another easy route trial suitable for beginners or even a training session with a local club to give you more confidence.
My first trial back in 1969 was a single route all experience layout ! I spent most of my time asking the observers for a five rather than attempt the section and only took on the easier ones, my score was in the hundreds and the trial winner was Don Smith ,a European (World) Champion the previous year, who only lost about 4 marks !
Keep at it , it does get easier and more enjoyable. You never know you could be another Emma Bristow......
Cheers
Dave
Hey Dave, thanks for the input and encouragement. Sounds like your first trial was similar to mine, some of the drops and turns were quite intimidating on the blue route, I wasn't confident I could do them without hurting myself on a descent. Don Smith 4 marks only, and on an expert route presumably? Wow, that's cool. There is another trial on new years eve, I'm going to attempt it, apparently it's a very muddy one, at least any potential landing will be soft. I'm a bit weary of something labelled 'dead easy' now.
The way I see it the only way I can fail is if I quit, which I have no intention of doing. I'd love to be at Emma Bristows level, even if it takes me 10 years to get there! thanks, Heather
Great read! Keep at it. I was 12 and Won first time out in 1972. Started riding Expert in 1974. My son at sixteen just won his first Expert trials last month. Trials has been so much fun, and watching my son ride is even better. It is quite addicting if you keep at it!!
That's awesome! Is it all about confidence? It was great to watch the expert riders warm up before a section, they were doing rolling stoppies, wheelies, launching off banks etc. And they all looked relaxed and were really moving around on the bikes. Hats off to you and your son, fair play
HR don't be embarrassed. You have just tried a motor sport 99.999% of riders will never have the nerve to try. If you looked carefully at every other bike in the pits you would have seen they all have their scrapes. You will find a lot of riders encouraging you to ride better but that comes from the sincere desire to help you ride better. There is no judgment and no looking down on new riders. We were all new at one time and some of us are sliding backwards at a rapid rate.
Trials is unique in that you are competing against yourself. It's every bit as much a thrill when you get over that 5" log that's been driving you crazy all day as it is for the expert to get up that 5' rock. Believe me we will cheer your success every bit as enthusiastically. Congratulations, you are now a trials rider.
One of us!
One of us!
One of us!
Thanks Dan the people on this site have been really nice and helpful, it's great to feel welcomed. When I used to crash on my xr 125 off road I tended to go with the bike, these days I just try to save myself a bit more. Thanks for the encouragement, Heather
My biggest problem right now is overcoming my fear of down hills, it' a big problem. Off to practice this morning, basics again
In my first trial I rode the "easy route or yellow route" as its called in this area and only managed two of the four laps and with endless 5's. I genuinely said to myself "I cannot do this sport". By the way I had many years of motocross experience but that didn't help me much lol. Anyway I persevered and have massively improved, however it has been a very gradual learning curve as my natural talent is limited. I guess my only advice would be to ride ONLY what you want to and sod what anyone else thinks! Stick with it though, you WILL get better.
Good Luck
tjp, thanks, sounds like trials in your area are of a similar difficulty to mine. If you asked me if I wanted to go back to the quarry the next day for another go I would say yes, that's reason enough to continue
Hi hrmad, I am 40, and been road riding, never taken part in offroad activity ever. I've always enjoyed watching trials on TV, so with some spare cash I bought a second hand sherco this Easter and joined my local Yeo Vale. My first trial however was with Somerton club at 'The Beacon', and I put pride aside, and in hindsight correctly signed up for the beginners seperate route. My first foray into trials was a total success, eye openner, and thoroughly enjoyed myself. Since then, I've taken part in all the Yeo Vale beginner days, but work commitments prevent me being able to get other practice in, and it's been a gradual transition where upon I've just done the Somerton Binegar trial in novice and managed to clear all but 2 sections on the day without being too intimidated.
I enjoy the company, banter and most of all the riding without scaring myself! There you go, have fun, regards, Wayne
Hi Wayne, sounds like you've had a really good experience. I wish they offered an easier route for beginners locally like you've described, the novice blue route on Sunday shared some of the same route as the clubman and expert lines, the only difference being the severity of the turns and climbs. I wish I would have attempted at least the first section, but had problems with fuel coming out of the carb after a crash. A tap with the plug spanner didn't work, fixed her when I got home though.
Mine was disastrous to be honest, and I wont go into the details. If I was only allowed to describe trials in one word from the possibly hundreds of words I could, then it would be "challenge". I have seen so many people over the years saying "that looks easy" until of course they try? I still get a huge buzz 30+ years later from riding something I have never been able to before or doing better in an event than before even if my limits are quite low to start with compared to many. Like many sports, especially road racing, confidence is everything, but confidence can be the ability to ride feet up over a 6 inch log or confidence riding over a 6 foot log, they key is knowing your abilities and limits to start with and going on from there. There is no point in throwing yourself at sections to end up fiving everything and possibly going home bruised and battered, you will have only learnt one thing.
There is no disgrace at all in riding the conducted route, you will learn and that's what is important from now on, and I'm pretty confident there wouldn't be any riders who would think any less of you for doing so as I'm sure most if not all will have remembered their first few outings on a trials bike.
As a beginner your learning curve will be very high and you will progress quickly as your confidence rises, the better you get the harder it becomes to learn and progress so be thankful for now you are in the stage where you will possibly learn faster than anyone else and get better at a greater speed.
Most trials riders will be more than willing to help you either practicing or at a trial, you may even find someone who will ride with you at every section and give you advice of what to do and what lines to take, we are pretty much all a friendly and happy group of people.
All the best in the coming months, stick with it as it is a lifelong social sport that is highly rewarding.
I found out the same Sunday, trials is a lot more challenging than it looks, especially when you see how natural some of the riders are and how easy they make it look. I do feel more confident down the woods now and am attempting hills I wouldn't entertain before, so progress is being made. It's a really good point you've made about confidence. For sure I'll stick with it, there is another trials on new years eve I want to enter. By all accounts its a muddy one, but this time I'll have more practice under my belt and a better idea of difficulty
I live and breathe motorcycles.... (have 11) been riding 44 years this year, wife and I had first date on a motorcycle 32 yrs ago and still have the bike AND my beautiful wife, I have done road race sprints on an old 70's 650 Kwaka four, raced social motocross, did some flat track in a sidecar outfit on the chair, have done over 45,000 kilometres on my bikes in last 2 yrs alone, have won 3 motorcycle concourses, I ride every day...
But none of that prepared me for trials motorcycles and my first trial except I knew where the controls would be and I could start one!!!
I fell off 3 times with one being a good old fashioned face plant right in front of my wife as I pulled up to tell her to take a few pics!! I sure scored a podium finish in the embarrassment class!!!
One fall I just lay there in the section... I was so buggered I just lay thinking I need a little rest I'll just lay here under the bike! Because I didn't move two guys ran down to me and started picking me up and saying "are you ok?". I said "Just having a little nap boys!... I'll be right".
I only completed about 15 sections and though I had a score card didn't know I had to punch the thing full of holes! And... didn't know you had to get a new card every 10 sections!! ahahahahahahahaha
I probably looked like a turkey, sounded a bit like a turkey, was as dirty and dusty as a turkey from falling in the dirt... BUT, I was hooked on this TRIALS thing!
That was last March! We practiced and practiced at home as we now had a dream to compete in a trial together... when we thought we were ready. We static practiced every night after dinner and did fig 8's til dizzy every chance we could, at home. We rode 3 Sundays a month for months at the trial comp venue.
My wife decided she was ready and wanted to try a comp. We entered a trial about a month ago! What a difference some practice makes... my wife scored a 72 for the day and I scored 56. Neither of us fell off the bikes which was the major mission. I think 5 people entered the Novice class... I scored 2nd place on the day and my wife placed 3rd.
I am very proud of her... she had never ridden a motorcycle before last January and is aged 50 yrs... she was very determined to achieve her goal to ride one! To that end I insisted that she would start on a trials motorcycle! We all know that there is nowhere to hide on a trials bike they teach precision clutch and brake control with balance and steering perfection or you get outta shape very quickly.
Her first motorcycle in her life is her 2014 Beta 250 4T Trials and loves riding the thing!!!
We are "both" addicted and having so much fun on our trials motorcycles, now!!! The kids are wanting to try it out now...
Mags
As always thanks Mags. Sounds like you've had some good times on motorcycles Fair play to all the practice and the results at your second trial, you both did awesome! I thought I was too late starting at 23, a lot of people start when they are a kid. I think what your wife is doing is really cool, takes some doing getting on a bike to begin with! Is she going to try a road bike in the future?
I went to my first trial on Sunday at a quarry, I've only had my bike for around a month. Got my numbers then went to look at the sections, they were too difficult and intimidating to attempt. One of the riders told me not to attempt the course and to try the conducted route instead. Initially I wanted to give the adult route a go, so lined up with the other riders. They were practicing riding up and down a stony bank, so I thought to myself 'that looks easy, lets give it a go', this ended in charging up the bank, launching into a wheelie at the top and thoroughly embarrassing myself by forgetting the rear brake and ending up on the floor.
I then heeded the advice given and had a go on the conducted route, apparently only meant for 80cc bikes. I waited for the kids to finish the course, then had a good practice doing the sections both in order and in reverse. I felt like there was a bit of stigma attached to riding a 'kids' course, but to be honest I really am a complete beginner, a years experience on a road bike hasn't helped with trials much at all, apart from where the controls are. And a lot of kids are awesome at trials!
I did attempt the first part of the 'easy' section, got to the top of the bank, saw the drop I knew was coming the other side and lost my nerve. Bike went backwards, I bailed.
All in all, a pretty embarrassing experience. The course was a lot harder/ intimidating than I thought it would be, considering it was labeled 'dead easy'. What was everyone else's first trial like?
sometimes land availability has no bearing on whether or not one can practice...................pesky things called responsibilities, and wife and children and the biggest pain in the a***....work.
I plan on having no responsibilities, hehe. I hear you on the work front though. I need all the practice I can get!
I've got permission from two local farmers and can also ask a club member to use his land. It's pretty good, I feel like there is more of a bias again motorcross/ enduro bikes down here, especially where green laning/ trail riding is involved.
Plenty of competitions about within a couple of hours driving, which is nice.
When I can afford it I'll get her on the road and out on the lanes, will be interesting to see reactions to a bike with no seat!
Can you afford to move Mags? Or buy some land local to you? Your situation is pretty difficult, being able to practice 2 or 3 times a week makes a big difference to learning.
hmmm I wonder if you have a crank seal gone or your statore could be going as this would cause a weak spark under load , my plug is 7 and il look at it tomorrow to see what its burning like .are you shaking the fuel properly to mix the oil up , how are you mixing the oil and fuel. and are you turning the choke off as soon as it starts and not ridding with it on , sorry for all the questions just trying to cover the basics
I usually put 1L petrol in a milk carton, use a syringe to measure out the oil and then mix it in with the petrol- then immediately add it to the bike.
Definitely switching choke off, checked the choke too when we took apart the carb, working fine.
The bike is much better than it was, I'm happy with it for this Sunday, will just have to bring some spare plugs and a spanner if she bogs down.
Will try to sort out any niggles over the coming months.
The plug was black again this morning, lasted longer this time, worked fine again with a fresh plug. Sigh, an ongoing battle- It'll have to wait till next month if I get paid, haha!
With the help of a friend put a new throttle cable on there, new front brake pads and master cylinder, brakes much better, no longer squeaking and work as they should!
Exhaust packing is a possible fix. I use MX5 premix, might try Rock Oil instead- maybe it will make a difference. Beyond that is jetting.
The simplest thing to try would be to rev the bike now and again to get rid of un-burnt fuel, I'll try to remember to do this on the next outing.
Don't worry we all get caught out no one knows every thing we only can learn from mistakes . I just recently bought a 06 rev 3 250 and missed a slight water leek which should have been picked up but is my fault for not taking a torch .but every one on here is verry helpfull so your not alone . Hope it runs sweet as a nut
Sorry to hear that, I guess buying any bike used some adjustments should be expected. And yes, the bike is running much better, nicer to ride now. Just need a working front brake, haha! Hopefully will get the parts and get it sorted on Friday
Too young to know better.
thanks
Down Hill Approaches?
in Trials Training And Technique
Posted
Thanks for the advice. But there are circumstances where you have to pull the clutch in otherwise you'll stall, like a descent with a camber turn. I went out practicing today and used both the technique of engine braking without clutch and light use of both brakes as well as clutch in, hard on the front brake, light on the rear. Clutch out worked better on longer descents, it was simply easier to let the bike bounce down a slippery, wet and muddy bank than to use the brakes heavily. If you've got to throw the bike into a tight turn at the bottom of a bank pulling the clutch in seems to help. You can't really go super slow down a descent with the clutch out without risking stalling, it's not so bad if you've got a good run off. Horses for courses.
I've learned something new about MTB, I thought downhill guys had their asses right on the rear of the bike! Thanks again