Sir Real Ed

Congrats on retirement Dan. I'm sure you will enjoy it. Takes a while to get used to the idea of your time is your own.

Great ideas Bikerpet. I only trimmed the ends of the plastic hook. I thought about trimming more, but it seemed to slide off pretty easily as is, but I can always adopt your approach if needed later. I should have went your route with heating the airbag cover, but I could not see ever going back to stock. Crash proofed and crash tested bikes bring more on the used bike market here. I like the magnet idea. A similar approach would be adhesive backed velcro (hook & loop to some folks). Great source for such things, at least here in the US is mcmaster.com. Hopefully there are similar Strine suppliers. ? I hope things are well in Straya. ?

So far, so good. Those are the proper first three steps of any repair caused by the all-two-common occurrence of "being human." ?

IIRC, the original bearing diameter was 13 mm. Is that correct?

Me takes the view count as evidence there are a lot more dragging clutches out there than bikes jumping out of gear in the Beta world. ? But hey, solving a problem is only a small part of the purpose of tinkering. It is recreational and entertaining. The process is it's own reward. Results are secondary. Hell, anyone can adjust their clutch free play properly, bleed their clutch properly, and install shims. This is creativity, art, innovation, engineering, and ingenuity at it's finest. Good on ya Dan for going down this road. Solving problems by following the advice of others, hell, anyone can do that! ?

That's not an obsession, that's a healthy, family bonding activity........ So, IIRC, the end result (so far...) is a 14 mm diameter bearing instead of a 13 mm diameter bearing that is moved towards the center of the engine to allow more bearing/contact area with the cam. Is this correct?

Excellent information Dan. Thanks for keeping us up to date. I look forward to future updates. With such a small neutral "detent," it is not surprising that neutral is hard to find. But obviously, making the detent bigger, makes it more prone to jumping out of gear. A smaller diameter bearing might help, but there might not be a great deal of improvement left to gain. Since we all talking about feel, it is hard to quantify. Don't get discouraged. Keep up the good work.

Dan, I, for one, appreciate your time and effort addressing this issue. IMO, tinkering with bikes and making incremental improvements are half the fun of motorcycling in general. You've shown some great thinking during this ordeal. Pat yourself on the back for having the guts to experiment. Regarding mistakes, amen that those who do not feel the pain of fixing mistakes usually seem to miss the most valuable part of the experience, the lesson. In my younger days, I used to think the those who did not do it perfectly the first time were stupid. Easy to think that from the sidelines. Now older, I know that 90% of engineering success is incremental and iterative. Never bet against the person willing to take chances and make mistakes. In the long run, that's the person you want on your team. If I knew the address of your safe space, I'd send you a puppy and some cotton candy. ? Hopefully, when you are done licking your wounds, you'll get back on that pony and show em who the boss is!!!!!

Kudos for sharing Dan. That's what us old guys are supposed to do, share our stories of stupidity with the world, so the you guns feel better about their own mistakes. "Do as I say, not as I do!" and "Don't be an idiot!" remain pearls of timeless wisdom! As the old story goes: Young guy: How does one make good decisions? Old guy: By getting experience. Young guy: How does one get experience? Old guy: By making bad decisions!

Excellent idea.

Mightychub, I don't know how sensitive your ears are, so maybe the noise is normal. But if your mates think it is not normal, that is a strong indicator that something is wrong. I would insist on some written documentation from Lampkin stating that there is nothing wrong with your bike, and that if a problem exists in the future, he will fix it on his dime. If he is confident in his diagnosis, this should not be a problem. Can you record the noise, if so, maybe forwarding the noise file to Beta would get additional opinions. Obviously, in these situations, we are looking for a fix, and additionally, peace of mind that the problem does not exist. At a minimum I would: 1. Buy the highest octane "petrol" you can find, and add a double or triple dose of octane booster to it and see if the noise goes away. Aviation gas (112 octane in the US) is what a friend who has ridden Beta for decades swears is required, unless you have the Beta 250 which is their lowest compression motor. You could also make up a small batch of gas-oil mixture that is richer in oil and try that. 2. If Lampkin is right, that the noise is caused by carb jetting, one would think that making the carb jetting richer might help reduce the noise. Hopefully with the bike still running well. A quick experiment might be to "choke off" the air intake area (with some duct tape) to simulate a clogged air filter to see if that changes the noise. Additionally, remove the air filter completely to lean out the mixture. Might not help, but easy and quick. 3. Pull the head or use a boroscope to look for signs of detonation. 4. As Dan has suggested, the Jitsie water pump impeller may help. Does the problem only occur when hot? I'm no Beta master, but experimenting should tell you something.

Mucho thanks to everyone who has posted on this topic, in this thread and others. Since I have a fair amount of experience crashing Shercos, I went the following route. Pictures speak better than words in this case.

I understand completely...... but..... that's why god made hand files. To "square up" or "fix" all the sh*t that isn't done by a real machine shop. A dial caliper, a magic marker and a file can fix a lot of f**k ups. But, as long as you're in love again, that's what really matters. Think of all your time, expenses, and tinkering as the foreplay in a long term, meaningful relationship.?

Also speaking from a position of ignorance, I agree that guy53 has a good point. But it is all about the available space envelope. Some times physics says "Screw you! You gotta do it my way!" Stupid physics. Go for it Dan. Where would the world be without "famous last words?" ? Ditto on the thanks for your time, effort, and sharing.

Sounds like confirmation of your analysis to me. Good bearing obviously better than bad bearing. Smaller OD bearing should also be an improvement.

Seems reasonable. If an event has 30 sections, I would estimate 30-60 seconds to ride a section. At 10 miles per hour, you spend about 18 minutes riding a mile loop 3 times.

True. I was thinking about the only load on the cam follower is provided by the spring force. 10-40 lbs?

The people I know who have hour meters have told me they clock less than 2 hours of running time in an event. Which for our club is generally 3 loops of nine or ten sections or 4 loops of eight sections. Right you are about practice and play riding having more running time. One has said "I come up to your land to play ride and I get 3 hours of run time in a 6 hour visit."

Thanks for the update. yeah. 2mm of overlap just does not seem right with 5mm available. Very low load situation, so wear should not be an issue.

Don't forget to reset your sundial for Daylight Savings Time. I suspect for most trials riders, changing their oil twice a year would be sufficient.

I'm thinking I might mount a sundial on my bike next..... or maybe on my helmet.....

The last hour meter I bought (mainly for curiosity) only lasted 3.7 hours. I'm not buying anymore.

Dan, Thanks for the update. Very interesting. It seems obvious, that the smaller diameter bearing on the indexer should provide more positive engagement. In regards to the 16mm diameter bearing, WTF are they thinking? As you said, they are probably using whatever gets sent to the assembly iine. So far on my 2019 EVO 250, it has only come out of gear once, during the first couple hours of running. I don't recall if it was first or second, or whether I was lazy engaging the gear. I'm not too concerned since it is a new bike, so for the time being, it is a non problem in my mind. My first oil change (after two hours) was to Amsoil 10w-40 Synthetic Motorcycle oil, but I've switched to a non-synthetic 10w-30 to allow a little quicker break in. I'm a firm believer in non-synthetic oil changed every couple hours during break in. Gotta let the self-machining process run it's course. When you see the chips attached to the drain plug magnet after only two hours of running.... What oil are you using? What is length of the axial overlap between indexer bearing face and cam face? Please keep us informed. Side note: A friend's 2018 EVO 250 has a cracked rear hub around one of the wheel bearings. He did not say which side. Sounds to me like the bearing bore was machined a bit too small, and they cracked the hub by forcing the bearing into the bore during installation. He has informed his dealer, and Beta is fixing it under warranty. I was impressed that Beta would do so. I don't think many other OEM's would do that on a competition machine that has been in use for a year. Take care.

Lineaway, Thanks for the information and effort. The theory makes perfect sense. Hydraulic clutches have so little movement at the plates, that taking out the slack at the plates is a good idea. I've haven't noticed a problem on my 2019 EVO 250, but it is my first Beta after riding a 2001, 2005, and 2011 Sherco since 2003. Some have suggested I'm inherently insensitive before.......? When looking for stuff like this, I suggest always trying McMaster.com. Excellent selection and the best vendor search engine I have ever found. We have ordered as late as 8pm and had the parts by 10am the next day. McMaster-Carr pn 98055A218 is a 16 x 22 x 0.1mm shim washer. $5.52 for a quantity of 25. Also available in 0.2mm, 0.3mm, and 0.5mm. Or in 18 x 25 x 0.1mm size. I am going to give it a shot. Thanks again.

Dan is right. Nothing to worry about. Not unusual for all motorcycle transmissions. They often need a little movement in the drive train for the gears to unlock and allow the shift forks to slide. It is very possible to bend shift forks if "Fred the gorilla" tries to change gears by stomping on the shifter with out slightly rotating the rear wheel or rocking the bike back and forth.