feetup

I could use some advice, I have a new 05 beta that started with a very slow air leak. I used some water and soap to find the problem area, and discovered that about half of the spokes are leaking air very slowly through the top of the nipple! I've never seen anything like this before, although i have heard that tubeless tires do leak small amounts of air. I tightened the spokes a bit using a spoke wrench, some of which were very loose. I was careful not to overtighten, just to make sure each had a nice 'ping' when you tapped it with the wrench. The problem has gotten worse. The tire has gone completely flat in 2 days. I don't think there is any leak from the tire itself. I haven't spooned the tire off yet to see if the rim strap is defective (missing?) as I was hoping to find a nice hole in the tire that could be plugged I guess that's the next step, but would anyone care to offer any other reasons or causes for this problem? many thanks, robert

Well I thought I would add a final reply to this topic, as I have just ridden my new 05 Beta 270 at Motoramma this past weekend in Harrisburg, PA (usa). All I can say is WOW.. The 270 works really well for me. Everything felt easier. I can't believe I was worried about the power delivery, or that the extra 20cc might wear me out that much faster. It's not even broken in yet, and I can't believe how well the motor feels. The characterisitc of the power delivery provided by the extra low-end grunt of the larger displacement motor really makes a difference... much smoother & more controlable power delivery. Not as peaky as the 04 250. The bike now has the snort off the bottom that I was looking for, and of course, all I could ever hope to use from mid-range on up Two other comments/observations about the 05 vs. 04... The suspension... Just when I thought for sure I had ridden the bike in 04 regarding the boingers, the 05 is actually BETTER.. My 04 250 felt as good after 1 year as the day I rode it new. The 05 suspension is even more progressive. Landing from a large obstacle surprised me at how couchy the suspension responded to the drop. Almost as good as a modern day 'freeride' bicycle, which is made for hucking off large drops. Very impressive The new brakes ... Well, probably not fair to comment fully regarding the feel/action after 1 day of use in competition. At first they were not grabbing because they needed to break in. After I burned them in a bit, and felt comfortable with using them in a section, they appeared to work at least as good as the 04 stoppers. The one problem i forsee is with the new Beta designed perches. They have a very small contact area w/ the bar, and mine were tightened VERY tight with both alen screws (both throttle & clutch side), and they would still rotate around the bar after a ride through a section. Not sure what I need to do here, if anyone has any suggestions, I'm listhening. (plumbers tape under the perch?). Lastly, Throttle... My 04 250 I used the fast aluminum throttle. I decided not to put the aluminum fast throttle on the 270 yet, because I figured I already had enough new things to contend with at this trials (new bike, never rode indoor sections before, hadn't ridden all winter...). I actually have to say that I liked the action of the slow throttle! I guess I never really gave the slow throttle a chance on my 04 250, I just went with the fast throttle because I hated the black throttle tube on my 01 montesa (previous to the 04). Everything I did on that bike with the slow throttle was making me 'late' with my response. Betas in general do rev more freely, but I wasn't sure how much I was going to like it, and was prepared to swap for the fast throttle if I didn't think the bike was going to react the way I had expected. NO PROBLEMO! That black throttle tube is still very responsive, and offered that much more control. I suppose the best combination would be to take the slow throttle and modify it slightly so the barrel is snail shapped for ha ha's, but for now I'm leaving the slow as is. (btw, the betas in the usa do not have added flyweel weights, just an fyi) So the verdict is: 270 baby! I encourage anyone who is riding a 250 to swing a leg over a new 270 if the opportunity presents itself, you won't be dissapointed. Thanks to all for your input and helpful advice. -rob

Actually,, On one of the Trials TV DVD's (can't remember which one) there is a quick shot of video at a honda tent showing off a prototype Honda Electric Trials bike. The engine appeared to be stuffed into the 315 frame... never heard or saw anything about it since... it certainly would have been a thousand times better than the Denali, which was more mountain bike parts than trials bike parts.. The denali wouldn't stand the abuse by anyone more than a novice. sometimes I wonder about electric trials bikes.. I think they'd have awesome torque, but IMO, you would still need some type of clutch in order to obtain absolutely hair-trigger instant power to do things like zaps, splatters, etc. yes, the throttle controls power, but I think at times the clutch is almost more important for how we control a trials motorcycle. While I'm at it, wouldn't you also need a flywheel, in cases where you might want to rev the engine to store energy in the flywheel, and then use the clutch to release it for huge obstacles? Curious thoughts.

Do you think the 270 will have a greater propensity to tire the rider out over the 250?

Yes, the 250 is a GREAT bike for sure. I'm just having an issue w/ the low end right off the bottom. I don't think anyone would argue that the 250 is capable of everything the 270 is with the right rider abord (and that's not me for sure!) Here's an article which reviews all the 05 betas, It's the most thorough article I've read thus far. http://www.tmxnews.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx...rticleID=898429 The author does confirm some of my concerns about the 270 really being suited to more of an expert level rider (to take advantage of it's full capability). Sounds like a lot of riders buy the 270 and then just ride it a gear higher to 'chug' through most things. I'm not sure that style of riding is for me. I want to be able to fully use the power in the right gear, but I'm fearful that the extra power of the 270 will make me tire out more quickly. I may be more inclined to experiment with gearing, reeds, etc. on the 250. Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever tried removing the flywheel off their 250? What was the result?

I'm running the aluminum tube fast throttle. I can't use the slow throttle because I have very limited wrist movement in both my wrists bending backwards. I've been going to therapy to try to increase my flexibility, but the doctors have told me that's just the way my wrists are. I've tried the slow throttle before on my former bike, an 01 montesa. That really just didn't work, every move I tried to do I ended up being 'late' because the bike just didn't react when i wanted it to, probably because I just couldn't turn my wrist far enough in an expedient fashion. I don't have these problems on the beta w/ the aluminum throttle tube. The betas are definitely faster revving machines, I may consider trying the slow throttle on my bike just for ha ha's to see if it's any different than my previous experiences.

I'm Contemplating my next machine, possibly next year before the four-strokes arrive. Looking for some thoughts on the 250 vs the 270, & which might be better under different circumstances... Currently I ride an 04 rev-3 250 which ihas worked quite well for me this year. The only problem, is that some times I feel the power comes on a tad soft off the bottom when going to zap or do a move fairly quickly and aggressively. I'd like to try the v-force 3 reed kit, although that probably won't do much for the low end of my 250, just smooth it out (it's pretty smooth right now though...). I have given some thought to changing gearing, but I'm afraid of rendering 1st gear unusable, and wondering what will happen to 2nd, & 3rd for section work. There are a lot of things I like really like about my 250 for sure, it runs like a moto-crosser, it winds up very quickly, and I feel the power is completly usable right until I wind it to the stop. Most of my clubmates ride 270's, but we have very different riding styles. I'm probably less smooth overall, and prefer to flick the bike & hop around more. I tend to ride my motobike a bit more like a bicycle trials rider, as that's where my background in trials is. Not sure if the extra oomph of the 270 would be more usable there, or just get mysef in trouble. I've swung a leg over my clubmates 270's for extremely brief moments, but it's hard to truly evaluate a friends bike thorougly for fear of scratching it. The 270's sure do have a nice bark My biggest questions with the 270 surround weather it be too much motor to handle once fatigue sets in, and also will the extra 20cc's be more helpful or a hindrance given my riding style. Fatigue is always an enemy for me, and at least on the 250 I feel like I can really control the power even as I begin to tire out, but do I really want another 20cc's of bike when my arms and hands are getting tired? Also, I'm a pretty small rider at 165 ish lbs, 5'6". The 250 has more than enough general power for me, it's really just the low-end off the bottom that I feel is lacking. I've heard some people comment that they prefer the bigger engine because it can actually be a little more calm/tame when chugging up hills, etc., but wondering how much extra of a handfull it will be over the 250 when trying bolder moves which require a a bit more precision, aggression, and timing.. Anyway, just some thoughts I'm having. Any of you out there have any thoughts on the differences between these two motors, their preformance under an intermediate/advanced level club rider? cheers, rob

The 2 disc set is some of the best trials riding I've seen anytime, anywhere. Highly recommended.

hmmm.. you may be right.. upon further research, it appears the engine may be made in conjunction with good ol' Kraftfahrzeuge Trunkenpolz Mattighofen.

Yeah, you're probably right.. that would have been exciting to post the 1st picture of the next generation of beta trials bike that will succeed the rev-3! Not likely to come from me though a 525 rev-3? Well, such a machine would aptly be capable of changing the rotation of the earth if it gets enough traction... Not sure that they need to use a ktm engine.... I would figure they would base the engine on their own design used in their enduro model(s). See the url below beta rr enduro 250/400

I too am very intrigued and would be excited to see them build one. One thing is very interesting... since I posted this topic about 30 minutes ago, there have been 30 views... that's 1 per minute... I wonder what that implies...

Does anybody know anything about if or when beta might release a four stroke to the public? I suppose a broader question is, what is the status of the law-suit that had been supposedly filed by gas-gas/beta with the FIM? The crux of that suit pertained to the fact that the bike manufacturers (particularly gg & beta) were angry that the FIM is dictating techology requirements, rather than emissions requirements. One or both have supposedly produced 2T motors that meet or exceed the emissions standards set for the four stroke machines. A lot would hinge on the results of the law-suit as to weather or not we will see 4T machines from these manufacturers in the near term, long term (like 2008), or never.

Agreed.. I'm 34 years old. I've been riding both bicycle trials and moto-trials for about 2 years. I took up both at about the same time, and I have a very high interest in both. I own a monty X-lite 26 for semi-serious urban assault trials, a planet-X Jack Flash Rad as a weekend woods freeride/trials bike. For moto bikes, so far I've owned an 01 montesa for 98% of my short experience with this sport, and recently purchased an 04 beta since last October. I've been competing in moto trials in Neta for the past 1 1/2 yrs, and I've just moved up to intermediate class. Given my relatively new experiences with both bike trials and moto-trials, I can say without a doubt: for me at least, moto-trials wears me out MUCH faster than bike trials. They are both different, and yet they are both similar in many ways. There are many shared fundamentals that can help you to improve by doing both. The bicycle version while more physical, requires that you are only moving a 30+lb bicycle around (plus your weight) vs a 160+lb motorcycle (plus your weight). Consider wheel positioning to set up for an obstacle: Which do you think would require more energy? The motorcycle does hands down. The moto-trials bike is also harder to position due to the fact that the suspension absorbs rider inputs. You have to work *with* the suspension, which requires a keen understanding of timing the rebound movements of the fork and shock in order to facilitate moving the wheels off the ground. What happens when your timing is off? The suspension starts working against you, and you use more arms and body which tires (me) out faster and consumes significantly more energy. The bicycle requires only a minute gesture to hop you and bike sideways, or position front or rear wheels. That is just a basic example. As my riding technique improves, I've found both have gotten much easier, and I can do more without getting as tired so fast. I'm sure if Adam Raga took a moment to reply to this, he would laugh, because I'm sure he can rear wheel hop his GG (with no motor) as easily as I can on the bicycle! Two of the biggest things that riding bicycle trials has done for helping my moto-trials ability are: BALANCE and REAR WHEEL MOVES Practice riding 2X4's in the drive way, stack them 4 high. challenge yourself to make it across. Ride around town like a kid and hop sideways up and down stairs. These things will help with BALANCE. Even though you're doing it on a 30lb bike. The first thing you must master is the TRACKSTAND. I can stand stationary on my bike asleep at this point. It helps on the moto-bike too, which I can balance for minutes in my basement w/ no motor. The 2nd thing is that getting used to REAR WHEEL MOVES on the bicycle has made it possble for me to do things that I suspect some people at my level may be afraid to do. If you get used to pedal kicking a bicycle up onto a picknic table in 1 move, then pulling up and hopping on the rear wheel (balance again) at the edge, and then rear wheel off the table to the ground, imagine all the balance, and hand/body coordination that you are employing there. Now translate that to the motorcycle: I found it almost effortless to pre-load the suspension, gas the throttle over a twig, send the front end high in the air, and land the rear wheel on a 10" rock one bike length in front of me. I did this without thinking about it, about 1 year after riding the moto-bike. Just to keep perspective on the amount of riding time I get to put in, I work for a living, and maybe get on the moto-bike or bicycle on weekend days two to four times a month during warm months of new england. So my point is simply that a bicycle can definitely help the motorcycle riding for sure, and I believe that the motorcycle practice has assisted with my technical ability and timing on the bicycle somewhat as well. One thing I did discover did NOT translate well from the motorcycle to the bicycle: the ZAP technique... That is a maneuver that I am still trying to polish on the motorcycle, but I'll tell you a funny thing that happened the first time I tried to use it on the bicycle: Picture a large flat rock, about 2.5 feet up from the ground, wide enough on top for a bicycle. I've upped the rock several times before on my woods trials bicycle, but using a more conservative approach of touching the front wheel to the top lip of the rock, followed by a large un-weighting of the rear wheel to follow it smoothly to the top. I decided why not compress the fork into the rock, using the suspension and a little more speed to attempt a zap technique... well, bad idea.. See the first problem I wasn't aware of at that moment, is that a zap on a motorcycle is made partly sucessfull by the fact that you are using the MOTOR along with a very precice downward and subsequent up movement by the rider. Once you compress and clutch/gas it, you ARE going to go up and forward. Now, consider a bicycle that is powered by me, and the weight of the bike is oh, 35lbs. What do you think happens when you compress the suspension fork into a rock and attempt to leap up? You have no motor to keep your momentum going forward, so what happens? you go STRAIGHT UP! Picture me at this moment: I am now 100% upsidedown, holding the bars, but feet vertical to the sky. The front wheel of the bicycle hasn't moved from the top lip of the 2.5 high rock, and the rear wheel rotates upward, about paralell to the rock, in mid air. Rider and bicycle come crashing down. Rider learns that zaps need the ZAP of the engine to force the suspension to recoil against the rock, as rider leaps up so that bike and body go forward AND up, and not just UP(side down)... My friends laughed their asses off, I just wish I had it on camera.. Ok, nuf about my thoughts on bikes and betas. Hope that was a chuckle for any who cared to read all this.. off to bed.

Can someone pls post a link as to where to view/purchase these online? tnx, robert

Thank you all so much for your helpful replies. I figured out that the air screw was in the rear. Sorry for my otherwise naive questions re: air screw; it's probably been 3 years or more since I jetted a carb. Before the beta, I owned an 01 montesa which required no jetting mods. Before that I owned mx/enduro bikes and those all required some fiddlin here and there. OK, so I made the changes today. The factory jets on my beta 250 were a 150 main, and a 35 pilot. The Jets Ron Commo hooked me up with are a 145 main, and a 27.5 pilot. The difference? WOW. significant. Throttle response is immediate. You get an instantaneous and smooth reaction, even from the most minute crack of the throttle, even in rappid succesion. Can you say "za za zing!" ... I've always found in the past that the 1st 1/8th of the twist of the wrist was always the most difficult to achieve a perfect response; in trials no doubt that little area is very significant when riding sections. The jetting changes I made today make the beta respond with knife like precision. Zaps became much easier where timing and throttle are critical. If there is one downfall, is that these jetting changes and super fast response keep you on your toes! I noticed that as I became fatigued, I had to pay more attention to what I was doing. That snappy/precision response can bite you if you're not fully committed to each and every move. You don't want to get sloppy. Before with the fatty's in there, there was a little heasitation in the throttle right off idle, which almost acted as a slow throttle. I can't use the slow throttle because I lack the dexterity in my wrist. Besides with that black throttle, I always found that I was 'late' with my timing on obstacles because I couldn't get used to turning my wrist that far to get to the meat of the power. I definitely like the fast (aluminum) tube better. I should mention that this setup for me is at almost sea level, but Ron says this should work pretty well all the way up to around 3K feet. Many thanks again to all, hope to see you out there. Keep your feet up! (or at least keep the bars higher than the rest of the bike...) -robert

I was given these jets from our US Importer, as I'm told that the bikes come jetted a little fat from the factory while the bikes are being broken in, and need to be leaned out after a breakin period. Clearly the throttle response is acting like the jets are too rich.

Hi there, I just added a leaner main and pilot to my 04 beta rev 250. I haven't started teh bike yet, but I wanted to reset the idle and air screw to their default positions. The manual states nothing about how many turns out from fully closed are the default turns for either of these. To be honest, I don't even know *which* of the two screws is which! Is the big fat one in the center of the carb the Air screw? (and the one towards the rear of the bike the idle) or vice versa? Can anyone help me to determine what are the default settings so I at least have a solid baseline setting for the carb before I start her up with the new jets? many thanks, robert