feetup

Well it's been a little over 7 years since I started this thread... and I even referenced EM in that OP, and after all these years, I am finally the proud owner of a 2022 EM Pure Race. So far I like it a lot, just posted in the EM thread about some lower gearing to see if anyone has tinkered with that. Definitely hope to see more progress in the space, but I finally needed a quiet bike, that can get through an event on 1 battery, and with a clutch. Boxes ticked. Here's a fun little video I did of my bike in my garage before I got it dirty :

I know some of you might find this funny, given how much 'torque' is supposedly available for electric trials bikes, so bear with me. I'm just getting used to my new EM Pure Race 22, coming from a 2017 Montesa 4RT. I've owned many other brands as well, both 2 and 4 stroke. My initial observations riding the bike for a few hours, is the power comes on much more like a 2T, there isn't a lot of torque way down low, although for sure, there is *plenty* of power. I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with lowering the gearing a little bit more to try and obtain a bit more torque at the bottom end? Overall the bike is just amazing, I've been riding in mostly the Blue / Red modes (250 / 300), and I would say it overall feels much more like a 250 than a full-on 300 2 stroke to me, but for sure it has more than enough power for anything I'd want to ride at the Advanced maybe sometimes Expert level step here or there. Here's an interesting observation - I'm not sure if I can post a youtube link here, but I will try.. These riders are ostensibly *WAY* beyond my level of riding in this lifetime, but to my observation, it looks like the rider struggles to get the EM to really LAUNCH the rear tire up some of the steps, like it's maybe lacking the deep low-end to really explode and get lift from the rear wheel without a kicker. Anyway love the new bike. Just wondering if anyone has played with gearing, and if they lowered, how did it feel? I hope to see more progression from the manufacturers, it sure has taken a long time. Check out my first post on this subject here back in 2015: here are a couple videos, where it looks like the rider is strugging to get the bike to explode lift from the rear wheel. What do you think? and

I'm wondering what happened to the momentum behind Competition capable e-bikes? I have a video from 10 years ago that showed a prototype from Montesa, We know Gas Gas showed Raga on what seemed to be a solid looking prototype, where is that? the Em.7 is out there and looks like the best option available, but not much else has developed in the past few years. Beta? Sherco? Nothing that I'm aware of. There was this huge push, practically a mandate few years back by the FIM to make 4T bikes, those still are out there but with the mandate gone it seems 2T bikes are (thankfully) just as if not more popular than ever, good, but the innovation with e-bikes for Trials appears non-existent. What gives? There is so much potential. I think a lot of people would buy/trade in their gas bikes for electric if there were more options than just the Em.7 What do you think?

It should be mentioned that there is a big difference between being able to 'hop' and being able to hop reliably and consistently in a section, such that you can place your front or rear tire EXACTLY where you want it, when you want it there, and keep your balance while resting, as you set up for your next hazard in the sectiion.. BIG difference... This comes with years of practice, before you can consistently apply hopping in a competition without putting your feet down, but you'll get there if you keep at it.

So I had my Beta 4T out for in the woods of CT (usa) today for it's first solid ride, and my verdict is, this thing is SWEET! I'm spredin' the word that this machine is serious fun, and will be competitive with anything out there. Here's my detailed opinion after a day's riding: Looks / Details: I have to say, this is probably the coolest looking bike I've seen.. pictures don't do it justice. I'm surprised that Beta released the first few pics as they did, they were way off with the color. The bright red-orange details combined with the black is a great combination, and the decal set is pretty rad.. The black rims are killer, the new handlebar is great, I don't know why they took so long to go with a taper design. Love the 3 bolt triple tree. The peg brackets are a new design, and look much higher quality.. too bad they haven't ante-d up with a decent footpeg yet, that's still a weak spot. The motor looks beautiful in the frame, and is more finished looking than the 07 1/2 machines which have a sand-casted surface finish. Overall fit and finish is very high quality. It looks like a little Ferrari of a trials machine. Sound: It's soooo quiet! it purrs like a kitten, but it bites hard when you get on it. It definitely doesn't have that obnoxious BRAAP that the montesa does, your neighbors won't know you're riding in your back yard with this thing.. You never feel the weight of the motor, and the power is definitely there for anything I'd ever want to use it for at my level (advanced). No question at all, this machine is competitive.. more on this later... Carb/Throttle action: If my machine carburetes as well in the warm weather as it did today, which was a relatively cold day, I won't ever need to touch the carb on this bike... Not sure I'd want to anyway, unless you can access it from the removable piece at the front of the airbox cover... The throttle action is just fine, I don't need a fast throttle... I was worried about this, because I prefer the fast throttle on the 2T, but this machine has a completely different throttle assembly, probably due to the CV carb or electronic fuel pump I'm guessing, the whole assembly is different, and they probably don't make a fast tube for it yet, but I don't think I'll need it. Engine braking: Very minimal, but it will be something to learn to get used to, as you must be very aware that there could be some slight hesitation if you chop the throttle even a little, as you approach a precision move, i.e. setting up for a floater, or are aiming your front wheel at just the right place on an undercut rock for a zap, etc. Power: The motor responds sharply and quickly when you whack the throttle.. much more than I ever expected. It's a lively bike.. It may not be the most powerful thing out there, but this is not a bad thing.. you feel like you can really control and use the power everywhere. You won't have trouble on expert level obstacles with this machine either. It's a soft delivery in the beginning, which is probably a good thing to help me ride smoother, but when you crack the throttle, it puts power to the ground with authority, almost feeling like it put's more weight on the back tire than the 2T. Aside from the engine braking, I don't think there is going to be much time needed to adapt from riding the 2T at all... Weight: Light! the front feels a tad heavier from the motor when you are pushing the bike in the lot, but you don't feel it while riding at all. I guess the rear pegs are moved backwards to compensate for this. It feels almost a bit lighter than my last bike, which was an 06 beta, particularly the back end.. The bike feels so light in the back, it almost feels like a gas-gas in the back... Suspension.. Wow. How does Beta manage to make such a marked improvement every year? I didn't own the 07, but 04, to 05, to 06, were all significant, and the 08 is incredible. The bike is so incredibly plush, I can't get over it. Starting: The bike starts extremely easy, and will start 1st or 2nd kick while in gear, AS LONG as the little black thingy switch on the CV pump is in the down (I think) position... QUESTION: Anybody know what that lever does????? There are no manuals in the USA yet.. I had some trouble getting the bike started after I had stalled it, while riding, tried the hot-start, the choke, no luck. As soon as I switched that black whatever-it-is, bingo.. It would start 1st or 2nd kick every single time, and even while in gear. Whatever that lever is, it doesn't seem to make any difference while riding, but it does make a big difference while starting... Transmission: 1st through 3rd are great competition gears, 1st feels longer than the previous 2T motors, which is nice, and it makes it much more usable. Maybe closer to the Montesa there. I found myself executing sections in 1st gear today, that I would have normally used 2nd for on the 2T. Only one small gripe, there is a *enormous* gap between 3rd and 4th gear... on the long trail, you almost need to wind 3rd out before switching to 4th, because the engine will just about bog down otherwise. I can't imagine ever using 5th gear on any loop, it's that tall... Overall: The bike is fantastic.. The fit and finish is everything you expect from a beta... I washed it, oiled the chain, checked the bolts (none loose) and put it in the garage. It's ready to ride or race! I wasn't sure I hadn't completely gone mad shelling out such a high dollar figure on this machine, especially not having ridden the thing, and with relatively few first hand opinions of the performance, particularly at the advanced-expert level. I wasn't really sure if this bike was ever intended to be as competitive as the 250/270, and frankly was afraid I was buying the 4T equivalent of the 2T 200 based on all the comments about how 'soft' the bike is. Having owned both 250's and 270's the past 4 years, I can tell you this thing does not disappoint. It shouldn't raise any doubts by national expert riders in my view, (not that I compete at that level...), but it's easy to see that the bike would be capable there, just look at Ray Peter's results for 07. It feels to me like the power may come on a little softer than the Montesa, but the motor feels equally competitive, and the bike as a whole feels noticeably smaller and lighter. By induction, I'd have to guess that if someone really wanted to ride the pro class on one of these, it probably would do no worse than Brent Le-Riche does with his stock Montesa, because I don't see the Beta making any less power than that bike. I'm sure if the bike had a bit more displacement, it would be more advantageous at times, but I don't think people are winning on the sherco 3.2 because it has another 70cc over the montesa, etc.. Well that's it.. if someone can answer my question on the little do-hicky on the fuel pump, I'd be grateful. Other than that, I can't wait to ride it again! Here's a post wash pic of the little philly after the first day out.

Has anybody heard any details about the 2008 mass producton of the rev-4? I'm champing at the bit to get one here in the USA. There's very little info out there on how things have been going now that the 250 has been out for some time. Not very many videos or updates since the two mile thread that went on a few months ago when the first one became available. How are you guy's diggin' your 250's? How has the reliability been? Does anybody have any more videos of the bike in action other than the ones Steve Saunders has up on his page? I'm sure I'm not the only one who is eager to hear more info on the status of the italian 4 banger!

I had this same concern back in 04 when I had a 250 and was considering a 270. I was concerned about the extra power, my ability to control it, increasing fatigue, etc.. None of these concerns materialized, and I enjoy the 270 MUCH better to the 250, and have been riding 270's since. Ours in the USA come with NO flywheel weight, and I have mine decked out with v-force reeds and an aluminum fast throttle tube, and I can handle it just fine. I'm probably low-to mid pack advanced now, but when I first did this I was intermediate. The primary difference in power is mostly at the low end, which can be very helpful to the clubman for plonking along and climbing hills because they don't tend to rev the bike wide open. A 250 wide open can get you in just as much trouble as a 270! So really it all comes down to how well you control your right hand, and the 270 isn't any harder to control than a 250. If anything it becomes easier because if you think about it, most of the bigger bore bikes (300cc) are created specifically for the clubman, because they want 'softer' power, which is what the bigger pistons tend to deliver due to the increased mass. Hope that helps with your decision making, if you haven't already decided.

I don't mean to be sour grapes, but I have to say I was a little dissapointed to read in the article below, that the opinion of the rider (Steve's friend?) suggests the bike's power is more comparable to the 200, and is probably not going to be very appealing to the expert who uses and appreciates the 270's bag of beans... I guess I shouldn't find that surprising given that a 4T is only producing power on half of the strokes, and this is a 250 after all. Nonetheless, I was hoping to learn that this bike would have some very serious snarl to it when you grabbed the throttle. I'm sure there will be many more opinions as the bike gets out there, it will be interesting to see how it compares to the montesa & scorpa 250's, as well as the sherco 3.2 overall. http://www.r2wtrials.co.uk/html_files/beta4t.html

I came across this short video clip on YouTube of the new 4T the quality of the video is poor, and the duration is short, but from what I can tell Beta did an excellent job of keeping the noise down. It sounds like it revs quickly, a lot like the sherco 3.2 or scorpa sy250f... I'm very curious if the rev-4t will be as competitive at the highest levels as the rev-3 270...

Everyone was correct, it was in fact the plug. I changed the bosch for a champion N7YCC, and it lights up 1st try as before, and runs super clean through the range. Thanks to everyone for the help. Also Ron, thanks for the tips on the mixture. I have been using the ipone oil recently, although I'm almost out and will be using ELF going forward, per your recommendation of 1.5oz/gal. Thanks again. - rob

I did change the plug fairly recently to a Bosch Platinum 4218.. I'm not a spark plug expert, I was told this would run well in the bike, but i'm thinking this is a hotter plug than standard, it sounds like if anything I should be running a cooler plug... I will switch back to the stock plug and report if that helps things. thank you all very much for your kind help. p.s. I've been running 100:1 in rev-3's since 2004 per the recomendation from our importer with no problems. the bikes also run fine with 50/50 race fuel blended w/ pump fuel, but I run 100% race fuel to eliminate any variables due to seasonal mtbe additives in our pump fuel.

My 06 270 has developed a recent problem where it will take many many kicks to get the engine to fire up. Prior to this problem, it has been a 1 to 2 kick starter always. It almost seems to light up a second AFTER you've kicked the bike through it's full stroke, which is sort of wierd, cuz you think you didn't start the bike after you kick, then KA-POP.. and it lights up.. very strange. Some technical details: I have the lean jetting in place. climate is unchanged (sea level) Float height has been checked and appears to be the right height (7/16ths from the base) Fuel type and mixture is unchanged (100:1 premix, 100% race fuel). I didn't see any debris in the pilot jet. Once the bike is started, it runs quite fine, although for me I've always found that it's easy to stall the bike. However that is unrelated to the starting problem. Thanks in advance for any helpful suggestions! cheers, Rob

did you mean 2 stroke fuel injection or 4 stroke fuel injection? Seems odd that they would make a major revision to the 2T motor at this point, if ultimately they need to go to a 4T design. It would be more cost-effective for beta to ride out another year or two on the existing rev-3 technology, until they have to change to a new motor & frame, etc. Personally, I'm very curious to see what Beta has in store for us with their 4T bike... I hope it is as fast-revving as the yamaha powered SY250F Taddy rode at the TTC in the USA... that bike sounded almost two-stroke like. Guess we'll have to wait a bit longer to find out.

Mitch, I'd be very interested in hearing more about your thoughts on the topic of training. Also, you mentioned a book you wrote? Is it available for purchase? cheers.

Actually, I'm looknig for this stuff, but with the Beta Insignia instead of Ritratto.. http://www.birkettmotosportukltd.co.uk/?Ri..._Clothing&print (I don't ride well enought to wear a skinsuit... I'll definitely be looking to buy the shirt/pant combo) Anybody know where to find these items in Beta flavor?

Does anybody have any links to the latest Beta Trials Apparel? I've seen a few photos of the new gear, and it looks great, but no links to see the shirt/pant combinations available for purchase. thanks

Have you landed on the skid pan hard recently? that could cause your float level to become mis-aligned. I experienced this problem w/ my 04 Beta. Once I re-set the tabs to the proper level, which I think is either 7/16ths or 9/16ths off the base when held upside-down, it made all the difference w/ starting.

Yes, Ray rode the expert class on Stephanie Commo's Beta 80. .. He looked like he was having a lot of fun. You could hear him wringing the guts out of that thing through the sections from a half mile away. He looked good on it! Then again, Ray looks great riding just about anything, he's amazing. The expert lines looked really challenging for an 80. His 7th place result was due to the lack of power available to conquer the biggest obstacles, but he went for it because he wrapped up 1st place for the expert class for the season, so he could have tried it on a scooter or a harley and the results wouldn't change a thing. Vermont was a great event btw, thanks to all the organizers and the green mountain plonkers for a spectacular event!

following up on my last post... the problem appears to be resolved. I think the secret is to use the PAPER gasket! this one doesn't deform like the rubber/silicone gasket, and has not leaked since. thanks for all the help/advice. -robert

New gasket arrived today, I will attempt to replace it tomorrow taking extra care to clean the surfaces w/ contact cleaner (which I did not do before hand). I'll also try using some type of gasket glue like hi-tak or something to help stick it in place better. Lastly, I'll wait a good number of hours before filling the case with gear oil (again, I did not do this last time, I just filled her up right away). I'll take a look at the skid plate rubber and see if there are any obvious areas that I can shave material where it might exert pressure. Do any of you have any thoughts on how tight I should be bearing down on the bolts once the new gasket is in place? I don't know the torque specs for these bolts. Also, I assume after a warm-up ride, it would be good to re-check these no? thanks again for all the suggestions. -rob

I know there has been previous discussion on another thread regarding how to change the clutch cover gasket (the one that goes all the way around the water pump. The job seemed easy enough, only after replacing the broken gasket with a new one, it still leaked. To be specific, it deformed in several places, slipping substantially outside of the case cover. The first time I did this, I did not use any gasket glue, sealant, etc. After trying to repair the leak by re-seating, I realized I was going to have a hard time because the gasket was no longer perfect in shape; however I did use a high-tak glue to try to keep the gasket in place. No luck. I've ordered a new gasket from Ron Commo, but I just wanted to see if anyone could offer any further advice on how to do this correctly. It's a pain in the neck! Somethings I'm wondering are: am I overtightening the bolts causing the cover to pinch the gasket too far inside or outside? would landing on the skid plate cause the rubber bumper to press the cover and cause a new leak? Should I add anything other thank gasket glue to try to make this thing stay put? The gasket I recieved is the one that has the blue stripe down the middle.. I don't think this is the same as the original gasket, which looked like paper (this one was clearly broken). The blue stripe one appears more durable, but I don't know if it is any more of a challenge to keep seated? Thanks in advance for any helpful hints. The diagrams on the previous thread were very good and gave me the confidence to do the job on my own. -rob

Make sure there is plenty of lubricant on the rim band (grease worked great for me to also help w/ sealing any air leaking through the spokes). If you don't want to use grease, use soap to seat the band in the grooves. It takes time to work w/ your fingers, or careful work w/ a tire spoon to ensure that each side is seated properly in the groove. If you use enough lubricant, the tension of the band will start to actually seal itself in many places over about 5 minutes, it makes it much easier to get the rest of the job done. there is a PDF document on ryan young's website that explains this thorougly. cheers, robert

Problem solved. I went with the grease solution (blue marine waterproof grease). All around the inside of the spokes, put the band on, (grease helped with that too) and made sure everthing was secure. Spooned on the tire, filled w/ air, waited till next morning. Still holding same pressure. Thanks for all the help here!

How about SiliGrease? I just got the new rimband tonight, tomorrow I'll go to the marine shop and see if they carry silkaflex, or other silicone that doesn't dry 'hard'. I've read both threads on Tc regarding options, and I'm leaning towards the grease/soft silicone camp. If you use a hard silicone and something causes a crack, you've got air. The logic behind the grease makes sense to me. Any air will force it down into the nipples, plus you can still tighten the spokes (a plus) I'll let ya'll know how it turns out, but many thanks for all the helpful feedback to everyone. cheers, rob

Update: I removed the rear tire and inspected the rim band on the rim.. no apparent holes or damage, however there was a lot of silty dirt in there. I wanted to do the job right, so I removed the rim band completely, washed and cleaned the inside of the rim and checked the spoke holes on the inside for burrs. There were several burrs caused by whomever laced up these rims at the factory. Looked like they were in a hurry with that flathead screwdriver. Ok, so smoothed those off, and went about re-seating the rim band. Before I did this, I held the band up to a bright light, and stretched it as much as I cold to see if i could see a pinhole anywhere, but none found. Rim band was re-seated (harder than changing a rear tire I have to say ...) and then tire re-installed. Crossed my fingers and filled her with air.. ssssssssssssssss hiss! still from the spokes only now it's worse. I have to believe at this point that the rim band is defective, and there must be a hole there somewhere that i am unable to see. It is rather hard to stretch, so it may not be easily visible. I expect to recieve new band next week from my dealer, so we'll see how that works out.