cota kid Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Mich Lin, you seem to keep wittering on about how you predicited Bou to be a future World Champion. The reality is who hasn't predicted the same? A certain Mr Dougie Lampkin even predicted it some years ago. Tell me this Saturday's Lotto result and I will be impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 (edited) I agree with you guys that TEAM Honda/Montesa has done an amazing job producing this bike/rider/team combination, thumbs up to them there! What's the real story here, not just the same old tired logic, "is it the bike or the rider" Geeeeeez I remember Martin Lampkin writing that about Rob Shepard and his factory Honda 4t back in the 70s. So that's some really tired reporting for sure. Here's the real story the way I see it. Montesa is leading Honda into a public relations disaster! How? Very simple, Honda is the 800 pound gorilla of motorsports and everyone hates a smart @ss giant. The fans will begin to pull for the little guy really soon, kind of like a David vs Golioth story very soon. They will get sick of Honda/Montesa being a bully. What Montesa has done is very simple, first they head hunted Dougie from little Beta. Which really did not bother anybody, then they stole Sanz and now Bou, plus they have taken riders from some other companies. Montesa has a horrible history of head hunting the talent other people have developed by simply offering mega $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$......... Which will only fly for so long until there is a HUGE backlash. Their next HUGE problem is their bike! Their production bike cannot produce anywhere near the results of their works bike. Another problem, they don't support the sport on a national level like Sherco, Scorpa, Beta or GASGAS does. They simple spend all their money on their factory team and bikes! A good example is the fact they have had nobody contesting the US Championship for years! While the other tiny little brands support riders in almost every country on the planet. Next issue is the history of bad sportsmenship displayed by some of their riders, from their first world champion to their current women's world champ. Who roosted an observer at the USA round after being unhappy with a call. I've also experenced some very heavy handedness from some of their importers. All this adds up to a reciepe for a train wreck down the tracks. Look, I realize that this space is sponsored by Montesa and that this post might be deleted and I might get banned from TC for expressing my point of view here but I must take that risk. But really, I'm simply being honest and pointing out what I feel the real story is here. I'm also giving fair warning to Team Honda/Montesa that they are cruising for a BIG public relations disaster down the tracks if they don't change course and very soon. I like TEAM Honda! I own a whole stable of Honda motorcycles and generators. Plus my wife was a factory Honda rider for a short time! They also offered me a spot on their team, plus I did a riding school for their factory MX team once. So believe me I'm not anti Honda! I'm simply the messenger, so please don't shoot me! Edited March 8, 2007 by Mich Lin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabber Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 I agree with you guys that TEAM Honda/Montesa has done an amazing job producing this bike/rider/team combination, thumbs up to them there! What's the real story here, not just the same old tired logic, "is it the bike or the rider" Geeeeeez I remember Martin Lampkin writing that about Rob Shepard and his factory Honda 4t back in the 70s. So that's some really tired reporting for sure. Here's the real story the way I see it. Montesa is leading Honda into a public relations disaster! How? Very simple, Honda is the 800 pound gorilla of motorsports and everyone hates a smart @ss giant. The fans will begin to pull for the little guy really soon, kind of like a David vs Golioth story very soon. They will get sick of Honda/Montesa being a bully. What Montesa has done is very simple, first they head hunted Dougie from little Beta. Which really did not bother anybody, then they stole Sanz and now Bou, plus they have taken riders from some other companies. Montesa has a horrible history of head hunting the talent other people have developed by simply offering mega $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$......... Which will only fly for so long until there is a HUGE backlash. Their next HUGE problem is their bike! Their production bike cannot produce anywhere near the results of their works bike. Another problem, they don't support the sport on a national level like Sherco, Scorpa, Beta or GASGAS does. They simple spend all their money on their factory team and bikes! A good example is the fact they have had nobody contesting the US Championship for years! While the other tiny little brands support riders in almost every country on the planet. Next issue is the history of bad sportsmenship displayed by some of their riders, from their first world champion to their current women's world champ. Who roosted an observer at the USA round after being unhappy with a call. I've also experenced some very heavy handedness from some of their importers. All this adds up to a reciepe for a train wreck down the tracks. Look, I realize that this space is sponsored by Montesa and that this post might be deleted and I might get banned from TC for expressing my point of view here but I must take that risk. But really, I'm simply being honest and pointing out what I feel the real story is here. I'm also giving fair warning to Team Honda/Montesa that they are cruising for a BIG public relations disaster down the tracks if they don't change course and very soon. I like TEAM Honda! I own a whole stable of Honda motorcycles and generators. Plus my wife was a factory Honda rider for a short time! They also offered me a spot on their team, plus I did a riding school for their factory MX team once. So believe me I'm not anti Honda! I'm simply the messenger, so please don't shoot me! It's called competition. In the NW of Englad a big shopping centre opened called the Trafford Centre opened. All of the nearby towns complained that they would be killed due to this "800 pound gorilla" Ten years on are those towns dead? Nope. Do they all have recently refurbished shopping centres of their own? Yup. See where I'm going with this Mich? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 What's the real story here, not just the same old tired logic, "is it the bike or the rider" Geeeeeez I remember Martin Lampkin writing that about Rob Shepard and his factory Honda 4t back in the 70s. So that's some really tired reporting for sure. That sounds like sour grapes to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Was it Mich who said Bou had handed the indoor crown to Raga by signing for Montesa when it was first announced or was that someone else ? serious question can he have his own forum again no so serious question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Wow, you guys are tough! Sure the little factories are being beat up by the giant, that is for a number of reasons. Number one is that Honda is not restricted by R and D costs like little Sherco, GASGAS, Beta or Scorpa is. Then don't need to sell bikes to create a positive cash flow to maintain their race team. Car, lawn mowers, generators and street bike sales cover the cost of racing for the most part at Honda. I'm simply pointing out that like back in the 70s and 80s people will grow tired of it. You have to admit that the little factories race what they sell............... then support the local sport a lot more than giant Honda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulthistle Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 (edited) Is it Bou or his bike? Puh-lease, do you honestly think it would make much difference what bike he was on? and... Mich, Thats a load of cra@! If people got tired of Honda being a Bully, 800 Pound Gorilla or whatever, Honda wouldn't have 50% market share in the US. If you were trying to make potential customer impressions in the US trials market where would you do it? At a national? Nooo! Only enthusiasts are there and they already have a bike choice. So that rules out sponsoring a national team. I know, maybe sponsor a Demo team that goes all over county promoting and entertaining crowds. Then when the masses go to purchase who is on their mind.......Ta DAH Honda/ Montesa. It's all about the $$. But you already knew that, didn't ya! Are you losing your edge? Edited March 10, 2007 by paul_thistle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 You have to admit that the little factories race what they sell............... then support the local sport a lot more than giant Honda. I think that's an insult to the good work done by Sandifords in relation to supporting the UK trials scene. Please check your facts before making such a wide reaching statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 The bike has been a winner in WTC from it's introduction. Dougie won on it first time out in 2005 didn't he..!! Last year Fuji won more rounds of the WTC than any other rider. So why haven't either of them won the championship on the 4RT? - lack of consistency in their results (for whatever reason, that's not the debate) not the bike. If it's won as many rounds as it has, it is capable of winning at most of them. Indoors is another matter. Yes the bike has come on to the point where it is now capable of surmounting the bigger obstacles but it still needs a rider on it who can master inddor techniques to get the best out of it. Fuji has never been that consistent indoors, whichever bike he was on, and unfortunately, it would appear that Doug's days indoors are pretty much over as far as winning goes. Bou has come from a cycle trials background which is always an advanage and just happens to be a very good and capable rider. Bou is winning because he is outperforming the others purely through his ability. He looks confident and would probably be achieving the same results if still on the Beta. It's solely down to his ability that he has won this year and to say he is mentally stronger as a result of his team mates mentoring him is firstly, pure conjecture based upon nothing and secondly, a bit of an insult to the lad's ability to say the least. If you've got it you've got it and as long as you're on a good enough machine, you'll win, 2 or 4 wheels, any branch of the respective sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 (edited) I like TEAM Honda! I own a whole stable of Honda motorcycles and generators. Plus my wife was a factory Honda rider for a short time! They also offered me a spot on their team, plus I did a riding school for their factory MX team once. So believe me I'm not anti Honda! I'm simply the messenger, so please don't shoot me! You burn Honda and then praise them. If i didn't know any better i'd say your looking for a deal from Honda to keep you quiet. Or your trying to make waves on this site for some other reason. What ever your point i'm not buying it. Edited March 9, 2007 by spud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw dave Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 I tend to agree with Woody - When a rider is Hot he's Hot - he can ride any top of the line bike and be successful - So to answer Rappers question it really is quite simple. It's TONY BOU - it's his time in the limelight. - Mich is correct in his comment about Honda buying Champions, but thats business - BIG business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 (edited) A lot of good comments, here my take! First off let me address the Boss, Andy, not living in England I've not seen all the hard work Sandifords has done of late for the local sport. I do know they are a fine organization because they have helped me while I was on Montesa, which I'm sincerely thank full for. Andy, let me give you a little advice, why are you so over sensitive when taking about the sport, you take everything as a personel insult. We are just benchracing like they do in every other motorsport. If you would losen up a little this site would grow, if the whole sport losened up, it would also grow! Next let me addres Paul, because I know and repect you. Honda has not only a 50% share of the US market but a 50% share of ALL the world's market. Half the bikes produced and sold on the planet are Hondas, then add the cars, boat motors, generators and lawn mowers and you have an 800 pound Gorrilla running around the world. I think Honda spends more promotional money on the LA Marathon than they do supporting trials, a sport that has brought more develepment information to the company that just about any other part of their racing programs. I do know that their support of the US nationals of late has been horrible! They have been a total failure at bringing any kind of a compeditive effort to bear against the little factories here in the USA. I know that they can do one because of their amazing efforts in the 1970s with Marland Whaley, Joe Gugliamelli, George Smith the 3rd and Mark Eggar, they were the toughest team in the business. Now the Demo topic Paul, we have had long treads here on the subject. I think it's been decided here through an open dialog that almost no new riders have been brought into the sport by all the Trials Demos done by the top riders. Yes they can earn a good living putting these side shows on but do they sell bikes or promote the sport, I think it's been decided that the answer is no. Lastly is Tony the man? You bet! Would he be winning on the Beta? I don't really know, but I don't think so! Now for the smart @ss remark about me looking for shut up money from Honda! That's such BS, I won't even address that silly comment. Edited March 10, 2007 by Mich Lin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted March 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 First off let me address the Boss, Andy, not living in England I've not seen all the hard work Sandifords has done of late for the local sport. I do know they are a fine organization because they have helped me while I was on Montesa, which I'm sincerely thank full for. Andy, let me give you a little advice, why are you so over sensitive when taking about the sport, you take everything as a personel insult. We are just benchracing like they do in every other motorsport. If you would losen up a little this site would grow, if the whole sport losened up, it would also grow! What the hell are you on about? I've said nothing on this topic. Since you've dragged me into it though, what I will say is... You're really starting to get on my tits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taff Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 (edited) First off let me address the Boss, Andy, not living in England I've not seen all the hard work Sandifords has done of late for the local sport. I do know they are a fine organization because they have helped me while I was on Montesa, which I'm sincerely thank full for. Andy, let me give you a little advice, why are you so over sensitive when taking about the sport, you take everything as a personel insult. We are just benchracing like they do in every other motorsport. If you would losen up a little this site would grow, if the whole sport losened up, it would also grow! You could always try reading the thread before offering advice Mich I think its Bou & yes I think he would've done it if he was on the Beta too. The kids in the groove, he's been building momentum & confidence since the 1st Indoor of the season & they both go hand in hand (as with any sport). As much as I don't like Honda for buying championships, I can't really blame them.......As it's been said before It's all business to them. Edited March 10, 2007 by Taff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 A lot of good comments, here my take! First off let me address the Boss, Andy...... I think you meant me Poor Andy taking the blame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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