nigel dabster Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Nigel dabster...Tiger Woods without a caddy... I was thinking this when I wrote my reply.. Sure I would like to see all progolfers without caddies and no I'm not joking! Think you are maybe at odds with alot of pro golfers too then.............. It is 2007 not 1984! Spa was brilliant last year! Go this year I'm sure you will be impressed, and maybe on the green route will make you say "I could do that"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosey Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Believe it or not, I was a minder (god forbid) two years ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 OK on the surface I like the idea of "no minder".I have said before that if the rider at the WTC level does not know where his own rear tire is than he has no business riding at that level. Good things minders do: Fix bikes------The rider is just that the rider, all other motor sports have the "pilot" and mechanics. carry fluids----The rider gets thirsty, sounds good to me. Keeps the riders' spirits up-------This is what coaches do in other sports. They probably do alot of other good things. But the gardening, blocking view of observer etc. is just poor sportmanship. Especially when the observers are volunteers. OK keep the minder but "Only rider is allowed in the section" As for severity of sections: lower the severity or have designated "catchers" Maybe we should concentrate on the observers and giving them a better incentive than being able to see world level riders and their minders try to "cheat" their way through a section. Just my 2 cents. in reality very little of the above goes on and as for standing in front of the observer it just never happens, not recently anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 I personally think.... A limit to the number of minders inthe section is a good idea; there should be a limit at some point. To ban all minders is a bad idea; the drops are just too severe if they get it wrong. Proffessional minders is a terrible idea; what would happen if they caught the first few then dropped one who then got hurt? I've no problem with minder to rider intercom; if minders are allowed then they should be allowed to use an electronic aid to communicate with their rider if they wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 The single minder rule is ok in my book, if minders are banned they will get round it anyway and might make things even worse. The entries would double over night, Amos etc will suddenly be riding and still catching for a fellow rider and scrubbing the **** out of the rocks and making nice big ruts just before his mate goes through, imagine the farce that would cause. WTC sections should be tough and big time, I think its what most people like to go and watch not a awkward slippy root camber that might take a dab or two. Have a look at the young lads at the next trial, hopping about/stopping etc, times have changed, bikes/riders the whole sport pretty much like any other. I bet if you asked a youth rider whether he'd like to learn how to splat an 8 foot step or clean that nadgery root turn, he'd say the step, keep the WTC bloody hard for the elite, I,m pretty sure its what the young lads aspire too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Gone are the days when a really good centre runner could have a go at a world round, that was back in the 80's, just the same as a competitive national cyclist couldn't manage the Tour de France.Times move on, the WTC is not designed to appeal to club riders so why should club riders think they have an instant answer to turning the clock back? I don't care what they do at world level, but it does have an effect on the club rider, as COTA say's, catchers needed at sections in a local club event, is this a positive way to grow club entries or does it deter riders from entering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 No hopping, flicking and side ways flicks what a boring sport that would be to watch or ride. There would be no one at trials events apart from the grumpy stuck in their ways moaners who would prefer to be back in the dark ages. What a lot of the moaners forget is, it was the trick riding coming in over the last 15 - 17 years that brought riders into the sport. There would not be any riders in trials they would be doing something a bit more intresting like Enduro, PushBike Trials or watching the grass grow. No minders, no hoping keep the wheels on the ground what are you all on about that is modern trials. If you do not like it go and watch ya local club trial you will be bored Shi#less after 1 hour. Great to ride but boring to watch. I do agree tweek the rules, get the right clark of the course and for the british championship use a few nationals as rounds or the Scott trial even the six days. but do not stop the trick riding, the minders and the circus that follows the WTC because with out it it would be sh~t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdad Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 My 2 sons have been doing the Youth Nationals for few years now and during that time I've stood on top of a fair few rocks and been called into action more than once. Now this may be too simple for WTC but in these events the only person allowed in the section is the rider. If a catcher might be needed the Dad/Mum/Minder has to ask the observer if it's ok to enter the section to catch. The answer is always yes. Job done and your on your way. The confidence that this can give an 11, 12 or 16 year old to attempt a particular hazard is hard to quantify, but when out practicing my youngest will often say to me "Dad I need a catcher", which usually means I think I can do this but I want you there just in case. What he needed a catcher for last month he's now doing confidently on his own. Moving on a few years, if these young riders keep challenging themselves then parents like me are going to be stood on top of sections for many years to come. The only difference is the size of the hazard. If you want to see a golf Pro carrying his own clubs get along to your local club when there's a tournament on and you'll see plenty. The difference is, the first prize they're playing for will be less than the caddies wages !!!! So good old economics takes over. The top 50 golfers in the world would still be the top 50 in world, caddies or not. They're just better !!! , Solves nothing, but a good debate. Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Well said mike, the top ten would still be the same!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cota kid Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Gone are the days when a really good centre runner could have a go at a world round, that was back in the 80's, just the same as a competitive national cyclist couldn't manage the Tour de France.Times move on, the WTC is not designed to appeal to club riders so why should club riders think they have an instant answer to turning the clock back? I don't care what they do at world level, but it does have an effect on the club rider, as COTA say's, catchers needed at sections in a local club event, is this a positive way to grow club entries or does it deter riders from entering. I think your getting this minder at Club level at little out of context. What I am referring to this the odd section where a mate or fellow rider is asked to catch your bike if things go a little pear shaped. Usually a big step. Its not about having a full time minder to ride around with you. Without your mate there you probably wouldn't have a the confidence to have a go. Even at my lowly level at trials I've asked a mate to do this on the odd occasion and I'm sure I'm not alone in this. The minder in WTC level also has to make the rider away of the time limit , now you couldn't expect the rider to keep looking at his watch could you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phb Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) in reality very little of the above goes on and as for standing in front of the observer it just never happens, not recently anyway. ive observered at the last 2 hawkstone trials and will be there this year again but as for the minders standing in front of the observer's this does happen a lot, both years ive had to tell minders to move out of my way so that i can clearly see the rider, and its amazing how many cannot understand you when you tell them to shift !!!! in 2005 one minder nearly shoved me of a 20 ft drop, most minders will try all the tricks in the book to obstuct your view and to alter the serverity of the section (especially the italians). yes we need the minders as the section's can be very extreme and when you are stood on a small ledge looking down on were the riders are coming up some of the sections look impossible and very dangerous, but its got to be 1 rider 1 minder not as the normal 1 minder and 5 mechanics!!!!!! in the section. Edited June 21, 2007 by Slapshot 3 fixed quote box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilco Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 I don't care much either how many minder's/catcher's what ever you wanna call them the top rider's have. But having them at club trial's what a laugh.I'll be buggered if im standing at the top of a steep drop expecting to catch a bike only to follow the bike down and land on top of it,then we're need another person coming in to the section to pick me up,so that's 3 people in one section at the same time or four if you include the observer laughing his tit's off at me,what a grin. some of you bloke's kill me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 As mentioned it's only a bit of debate, and world trials could do with a bit of debate, It may be just me, but I see less interest in the world championships, including these forums, than I have ever seen. Maybe it's because a Brit, isn't leading the title race, and the next generation of young riders from the UK may stir up the interest again, I don't know. I don't think trials should go back to the 80's, but if you think world trials has progressed since then, why are there less sponsored riders and competitors overall taking part ? a world round ranking and championship points used to worth going after, and even the lower place points were hard to come by, now the lower place points aren't worth turning up for, or so it seems when they are left unclaimed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cota kid Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 It is a big shame that a Brit (Doug) is not leading the WTC but it is still amazing to still see him riding as well as the awesome Bou, Fuji, and the up and coming Dibs. Not forgetting the young talent of Browny, Wiggy and many more. Less interest in the WTC. Hawkstone Park will be near sell out, look how many turned up in Guatemala, Spain had an expected good crowd even in poor weather. WTC rounds still command decent crowds. Jump on a cheap flight and go and see for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Jump on a cheap flight and go and see for yourself. Or even better - fly out to Poland and stay on for the Czech round the weekend after. Join Andy and the Cota Kid on their tour of Eastern Europe. Can't wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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