One Minder, Intercomm Etc.! How About No Minder?

[rosey]

Why don't the FIM sort world rounds out once and for all:

A) No minders!

The riders have to work on their own bikes!

The minder argument may go down the line of 'well its a safety thing re: catching etc.' but I'm sure this can be overcome

[matt]

What!? sort things out once and for all??? it is sorted out now with just the one minder! no Minder would be dangerous with the sections been put on in the World rounds now it would just be daft having no minder.. and how do you expect to overcome it?? stupid idea if you ask me

[rapid roy]

What!? sort things out once and for all??? it is sorted out now with just the one minder! no Minder would be dangerous with the sections been put on in the World rounds now it would just be daft having no minder.. and how do you expect to overcome it?? stupid idea if you ask me

How about a Communal minder stationed at each section

[rosey]

Stupid..perhaps, but if it was written into the rules 'nobody in the section other than the rider'...AND here I mean not catchers, I'm sure things would get sorted out pretty quickly.

The riders would not be able to do the harder stuff as they would have nobody to position wheels, put in kicker rocks and catch. The sections would become much more sensible, plus if they broke their bikes after launching them and had to fix them themselves...hmm????

Yes its stupid alright, but it just might work

[dgshannon]

What!? sort things out once and for all??? it is sorted out now with just the one minder! no Minder would be dangerous with the sections been put on in the World rounds now it would just be daft having no minder.. and how do you expect to overcome it?? stupid idea if you ask me

How about a Communal minder stationed at each section

How about safer sections by returning to No-Stop No-Hop? Changing from "trials riding" to "trials hopping" was a daft idea to start with, and has just led to more, and more, dangerous sections. IMHO

[cota kid]

I was at a club trial on Sunday and the expert riders needed someone at the top of a big step just in case. Some got up, others didn't but most riders I saw needed the reassurance of having the minder there just in case. There's no difference at WTC level. Take out minders and the severity of the sections will have to decrease greatly, to the detriment of the sport. One of the big attractions of the sport is seeing riders do this impossible, without a minder in place they may not even attempt it.

As regards riders fixing their own bikes, I go watch WTC to watch a riders ability on a trials bike not to see how good they are with a set of spanners.

[ishy]

I was at a club trial on Sunday and the expert riders needed someone at the top of a big step just in case. Some got up, others didn't but most riders I saw needed the reassurance of having the minder there just in case. There's no difference at WTC level. Take out minders and the severity of the sections will have to decrease greatly, to the detriment of the sport. One of the big attractions of the sport is seeing riders do this impossible, without a minder in place they may not even attempt it.

As regards riders fixing their own bikes, I go watch WTC to watch a riders ability on a trials bike not to see how good they are with a set of spanners.

I think your post gives more to the banning of minders than keeping them, minders needed at club trials ?

Since the introduction of minders to world trials, in what area has numbers increased, other than competitors leaving.

A good minder is there to give his man any advantage they can!! altering sections, arguing calls, obstructing the view of the observer, having a full set of spares in the form of a bike and many other thing's that just fly in the face of what the sport is about, on the other hand the observer is reluctant to five a rider for the antics of the minder.

Cater for a few, and that is just what you will get, a few.

[woody]

Cater for a few, and that is just what you will get, a few.

Yes indeed - which is just what they've got - a few

And British Championship has gone the same way, something around 10 at the last round, with 25 in the Experts and 6 youth riders

[cota kid]

In answer, no it wasn't minders at the club trial it was other riders.

As regards competitors leaving the WTC so be it, if they aren't good enough to cut the mustard then they shouldn't be there! When I attend a WTC event I want to see the best riders in the world tackling the toughest of sections, even if that is only a select few.

Regarding minders carrying out gardening, standing in front of observers. If they can get away with it they will, its up to the observer to stamp their authority and penalise them.

Also I would say the numbers of spectators has increased.

[woody]

How about safer sections by returning to No-Stop No-Hop? Changing from "trials riding" to "trials hopping" was a daft idea to start with, and has just led to more, and more, dangerous sections. IMHO

My preferred set of rules too, as more in the spirit of what trials was all about. However, riders on modern trials bikes with modern techniques will never ride no-stop, they'll still hop and maneouver under the argument that they are still moving (missing the point that it's supposed be moving forward that is the object) It's what happened when the WTC went no-stop, they didn't ride no-stop by any stretch of the imagination. The SSDT is no-stop but stops and sideways hops still happen with the top riders when they get into trouble and 99% of the time it goes unpenalised - as it does in our own Classic championship.

Don't know what the answer is to WTC and BTC lack of entries and personally, have no interest anyway, but I don't think the traditional style of no-stop is workable anymore in its true form due to modern techniques and modern bike capabilities.

[nigel dabster]

I was at a club trial on Sunday and the expert riders needed someone at the top of a big step just in case. Some got up, others didn't but most riders I saw needed the reassurance of having the minder there just in case. There's no difference at WTC level. Take out minders and the severity of the sections will have to decrease greatly, to the detriment of the sport. One of the big attractions of the sport is seeing riders do this impossible, without a minder in place they may not even attempt it.

As regards riders fixing their own bikes, I go to the WTC to watch a riders ability on a trials bike not to see how good they are with a set of spanners.

I think your post gives more to the banning of minders than keeping them, minders needed at club trials ?

Since the introduction of minders to world trials, in what area has numbers increased, other than competitors leaving.

A good minder is there to give his man any advantage they can!! altering sections, arguing calls, obstructing the view of the observer, having a full set of spares in the form of a bike and many other thing's that just fly in the face of what the sport is about, on the other hand the observer is reluctant to five a rider for the antics of the minder.

Cater for a few, and that is just what you will get, a few.

I really do believe that it is very easy to oversimplify things insomuch as one and one does not always equal two.

To expand; the section severity at club level, novice route is probably not that much different to twenty years ago, but at the WTC level the difficulty increases year on year, therefore to suggest no minders would simply make the event either too dangerous or too easy.

The wtc is smaller yes, but not in direct relation to anything except those that can or are willing to accept the section severity will do it and the numbers are less now.

This is being addressed by the Youth WTC which Alexz Wigg (British) won last year, and the Junior which Michael Brown (British) is almost certainly going to win this year. When these riders come through hopefully numbers will increase enough and the spectator draw will increase also, if required.

The numbers are small yes but they are the elite of our sport and like cota I am in awe of their ability. Being close to the action at quite a few rounds in the last two years has been a privalidge to see the best achieve the seemingly impossible and make the difficult look easy.

I remember that section at Hawkstone in 2002 was it , Dan Thorpe and a few others were no where near it then as the top guys came round they were getting closer and closer then Fuji got one of the few cleans and what a joy it was to see.

Yes they are a million miles away from what you and I can even dream of doing but how will the suggestion of removing minders help any of this?

In all the rounds in the last two years the gardening and advantage taking arguing and general rule bending is greatly overplayed here on TC, at Hawkstone the Bradford lot are fairly strict and fair and the placement catching and timing of sections really are the main tasks of the minders.

In my opinion a minder simply adds to the atmosphere and professionlism.

We wouldn't want Tiger Woods not to have a caddy surely?

Gone are the days when a really good centre runner could have a go at a world round, that was back in the 80's, just the same as a competitive national cyclist couldn't manage the Tour de France.

Times move on, the WTC is not designed to appeal to club riders so why should club riders think they have an instant answer to turning the clock back?

Edited June 20, 2007 by Nigel Dabster

[cota kid]

If riders can hop, bop, bounce on one wheel or whatever let them do it. The time limit at WTC level means the riding can demonstrate all aforementioned skills needed to clean a section.

The minders, the factory trucks and the mechanics all add up to creating the fantastic atmosphere at World Rounds.

With all due respect if you want to watch good riders riding hard sections with no minders or mechanics, go watch a British National. I want to see something a bit special.

Edited June 20, 2007 by Cota Kid

[rosey]

I guess its all relative. I remember watching world rounds in the 80's and there were loads of riders and it seemed real. When I mean real, I'm refering to 'God thats f@~kin great, but you know it seems like I could nearly have a go at that!'

There were even good Centre/British champ level riders entering

To me thats good for the sport...I should add that there were loads of spectators too.. which is also good.

I was in Spa a couple of years back for the world round and thought that it was impressive, but to be honest a bit boring too! It really did look like an arena trial.

Trials was originally about getting some lump of a bike over a tough course...then the bikes improved, but I still think the riders should have to fix their own bikes. I always used to carry a bum bag in big trials and I've lent many a tool or part to somebody who beat me... I look back now and think how daft I must have been (and still am I guess)

To ask observers to stamp out cheating is easy, but hard to do. Not everybody wants to be faced with a big threatening minder bloke dressed in lycra (although there are websites dedicated to this I bet or is it WWF?). If they were able to easily give penalty marks then the riders/minders would have to think again.

[zippy]

OK on the surface I like the idea of "no minder".

I have said before that if the rider at the WTC level does not know where his own rear tire is than he has no business riding at that level.

Good things minders do:

Fix bikes------The rider is just that the rider, all other motor sports have the "pilot" and mechanics.

carry fluids----The rider gets thirsty, sounds good to me.

Keeps the riders' spirits up-------This is what coaches do in other sports.

They probably do alot of other good things. But the gardening, blocking view of observer etc. is just poor sportmanship. Especially when the observers are volunteers.

OK keep the minder but "Only rider is allowed in the section" As for severity of sections: lower the severity or have designated "catchers"

Maybe we should concentrate on the observers and giving them a better incentive than being able to see world level riders and their minders try to "cheat" their way through a section.

Just my 2 cents.

[rosey]

Nigel dabster...Tiger Woods without a caddy... I was thinking this when I wrote my reply.. Sure I would like to see all progolfers without caddies and no I'm not joking!