bikespace Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Yes, I agree. The debate would be completely different if the poll was -1- Allowed to keep on winning trophies on the easy route, year on year. or 2- Once won, the easy route can only be ridden for no award. As I've said previously, I strongly feel that riders should not be made to ride a harder route. But this is just my opinion and I'm sorry if you consider me to be petty in expressing this view. No offence meant, and I'm sure none taken, can I substitute pettiness for sarcasm please I think we essentially agree, just wording and possibly context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Although sidecar trials is a very different sport, I tried it once..... how on earth do they do that? i've done the same, when i "borrowed" *my* sidecar (on "loan" to my parent who rode British champs sidecars) and gave it a go. truly a black art! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilco Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 (edited) Why have ability based classes if the top riders don't progress to the next group? probaly to many to tell the truth. Edited January 5, 2008 by bilco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilco Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Can't get my head around why we've got all stiff about this one.Alot of the rider's that start in this class would move up to a harder class without even wanting to win or come close to winning in it,meaning are they ready to move nope,and the rest of them stay there just with the intention's of being there to have a laugh.In short the man that keep's winning is winning because the other rider's in that class have let him get away with it,you can't blame the man for that can you.Before we go crying to mummy(COC)let's get in there and knock him off he's box in the form of beating him on a bike,simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Well put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 I'm not entirely sure on this one. I've been a very slow learner and have only moved off the easy route a few months ago, after nearly 7 years of riding. I started out as the rawest novice, but the real problem has been a lack of confidence and only riding once a month, maybe every 2 months for most of those years. For the last 3 or so years I've been winning the odd trial on the easy route, finishing consistently high in the end of season results, but with other riders similar to me in ability, mainly the elder generation. Trials would be won on up to 5 during the summer, with about 20 in the winter mud plugs. In '06 I was winning too much, on too few marks but still lacked the confidence to move up. There were still a few others who were close and it was really luck who won - who made the silly dab and got 1 not 0. I took to practising the sections for the next route up after the trial, and when I began to clean a few I moved up in time for the last event of '06. Early last year I switched bikes and it took a long time to get the new one ready, so 1st time back went for the easy route. Since then I've been on Intermediates and about in the top 1/4 overall. If someone had said anything about me riding for too long in the easy route, I would have willingly ridden for no award but wouldn't have moved up - I didn't have the confidence that I could ride the harder stuff and not hurt me - or worse, damage the bike! Its only been the last year that something 'clicked' and I've felt able to move up. I reckon that if someone is winning the easy route/next route up, consistently, on single marks, for a year, then its time to move up or go for no award. Its manners, really, to give someone else a chance of winning. While its very nice to be at the top, I don't think its worth treading on toes. Just my tuppence worth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 My guess is that these "sandbaggers" are in the most popular and biggest classes. Yes? And by forcing them to move up you are hoping more people will get a chance to win trophys in the lower classes. Here's the conundrum. If they are the most popular classes why would you want to risk screwing them up? If most of the people in those classes don't have an issue then it's not an issue. There are two kinds of riders, those on the up side of their career and those who are out for fun and enjoyment. The rising stars are motivated to advance past the the duffers without the added incentive of the lower class trophy. The ones out for enjoyment however, "pay the freight". Mess with them by targeting them for promotion if they are doing good and you mess with the support base of the sport. Bad idea. If your so competitive you need a lower class trophy then learn how to beat them. If you can't then you will have a better perspective when they are gone and you are the one facing mandatory promotion. Relax and enjoy the ride. If you're not a rapidly rising youth and you're riding trials for any reason other then fun you're in the wrong sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 When I was riding, I wasn't bothered too much about winning simply because of this problem. What I done and what I enjoyed more was to identify a rider that was better than me and aim at trying to beat them. If I beat them then in my eyes I won! Then when I had got to that level , I then focussed on another better rider until I beat them as well. I finally got to the point where I had beaten all the guys at the level I was riding at and then it got to the point should I go up a level. Now this is the problem. I had improved to an ok standard, but the next level is too big a step for me to switch to overnight. I was also getting injuries at the level I was riding and thought going up would just compound this and more injuries would result. I chose to pack in riding completely. Some thoughts here. Firstly, I never rode a trial at the level I was riding clean. If I could do that regularly, then I would have been at a level to go up. At local level, I was beating my peers but we were all around the same level dropping around 20 marks. So, in theory, I could have stayed at that level and whilst I would be beating them, I wouldn't have progressed to a high enough standard to go up but winning all the competitions. However, if I travelled to a trial out of area, I would have got beat easily by some riders who simply shouldn't be riding at that level ( experts dropping to novice routes) but that didn't bother me as I still focussed on what I said in the first paragraph. Identify someone you want to beat and try and beat them. That way each trial is a challenge and a realistic one at that. The sport will always have trophy hunters. The key to enjoying your trials I believe is to keep above all that. IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 (edited) Can't get my head around why we've got all stiff about this one. Glad you've risen above it Alot of the rider's that start in this class would move up to a harder class without even wanting to win or come close to winning in it,meaning are they ready to move nope, Agree, yep. and the rest of them stay there just with the intention's of being there to have a laugh. Errrm no not exactly. That's what we've been talking about. The ones who are staying for a laugh will not be staying to pot hunt and will be more than happy ride on a no award basis, we have lots of them with that fair play attitude. I have to say that Atomant is definitely one of them. But there are the odd few (very much a minority) who are happy to have a 10 year "career" on the beginner route and amass as many trophies as they possibly can. Is that sport? In short the man that keep's winning is winning because the other rider's in that class have let him get away with it, No he's winning because of the lack of any grading system or officials like us who decide he's had his fair share and needs to let some others have the limelight (while still being to ride the same route and have the same fun, and still be able to compare his results with other riders in the "beginner" or "novice" class. you can't blame the man for that can you. Blame probably not the word, but you can induce a bit of fair play in what should be a FUN class. Before we go crying to mummy(COC)let's get in there and knock him off he's box in the form of beating him on a bike,simple. Hmmmm...not sure where you've got the crying thing from. Firstly, I ride the expert route, I get beat every week and things aren't likely to change much as I accelerate through my 40's. I don't expect them to and it suits me fine, I've had my trophy's and they gather dust. Secondly, I won't be crying to mummy (COC) because I am the Clerk of Course. If I get in there on the beginner/novice route and knock him off his box there's gonna be some complaints that maybe I'm sandbagging, although without ever being officially graded as expert since my return to trials, maybe under your rules I would be allowed to drop down and have some FUN and trophies too? No need to answer that, I know it's sarcastic, but I'm putting my view forward with the best of intentions and to cater for problems which we have had in the past (NOT IN MY CLASS - I'm trying to look after the beginner/novice classes). No need for the cry baby stuff really It's not something new, we're talking ABILITY based classes. When you get to the top of your ability class then you move up (or stay down and ride for FUN). FUN is not a trophy. Wow - look at all them quotes - what a mess Edited January 6, 2008 by bikespace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilco Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) Wow - look at all them quotes - what a mess I hope thats the only mess you made BS,im getting abit concerned about all this thinking your doing about me. About time you got yourself a Twinshock BS.Riding these modern easy bike's in the expert class tut tut,you should be atleast thinking of launching an attack on the British Championship. Edited January 7, 2008 by bilco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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