Importer Direct

[kjax]

True indeed, about most all of us being in the same boat whan it comes to the rising cost of a new bike. Sure puts a damper on that urge to be on a new mount every season! I suppose the problem is the same for all motorcycle types though. There have been some really good points made on this topic, how can we make this great conversation help our sport? Are you listening importers? Is it time for some restructuring of dealership networks?

I have some friends who recently became KTM dealers after many years of running a great accessory and aftermarket sales firm (on-line and storefront) . Their primary reason for doing this was to sell the KTM hardparts line. As a reasonably high volume operation, I'm sure they will move a bunch of bikes as well. In this case, it was a tough decesion (big $ money to buy in with minimum inventory and parts) but the KTM rules and regulations seem to be working well for a lot of dealers as well as KTM. I think that the small KTM dealer (similar to many trials bike dealers) may give way to larger dealers as KTM contimues to grow. Is that a bad thing or a good thing?

With that said, my question is: Can the trials bike importers and manufacturers, (espescially the ones who make non-trials machines as well) follow some of the successful patterns set out by KTM over recent years. The new interest being generated by E-Cross is just one example of a golden opportunity. A recent local freestyle MX show (big show- national level) also had a trials exhibition. Wouldn't that have been a great place to have a display of trials bikes for all to sit on and see?????? The more I think of it, the list of potential opportunities just goes on and on.....

[atomant]

Just a mad suggestion but is there an opportunity here for an American businessman to come into the market with a US built machine? If the Chinese can copy a Sherco, then surely the USA could do it , but better

[ishy]

Many of the bikes in our club new or used were bought out of state, if any dealer or private seller advertises a bike online, providing the customer and seller agree on price and shipping, the location of the bike is not a problem.

When people say you should support your local dealer, the fact is for price and convenience the majority will shop around online.

If the whole thing falls flat, the little dealer may take a bit of an hit on a few bikes and probably be able to walk away unscathed, the people who have $100 / $200, 000 and more invested are going nip up a bit.

I would rather see a few do well than a lot do poor.

[brian r]

KJAX,

Funny you mention KTM. I've got a friend that's a Honda dealer. He had KTM too but got rid of them

because anyone could get on line and order direct from them, cutting out the dealer!

Sound familiar?

Oh, and an individual would get parts faster from KTM than KTM would get them to the dealer.

Edited February 26, 2008 by Brian R

[atomant]

Well, what you all seem to be saying here is that this isn't a financial question, this is a moral one! Do you as a trials riders/buyer, prefer to 'feel' good about supporting your local dealer even though it costs a little more, or don't you give a toss and just want a cheap bike?

[swooshdave]

Well, what you all seem to be saying here is that this isn't a financial question, this is a moral one! Do you as a trials riders/buyer, prefer to 'feel' good about supporting your local dealer even though it costs a little more, or don't you give a toss and just want a cheap bike?

Nowadays it can cost in much in gas to get the the local shop as shipping from across the country would be. Not only that but the local shop most likely doesn't stock as much.

When do I support my local shop? Whenever I can. How often is that? Not as much as I would like.

[atomant]

Nowadays it can cost in much in gas to get the the local shop as shipping from across the country would be. Not only that but the local shop most likely doesn't stock as much.

When do I support my local shop? Whenever I can. How often is that? Not as much as I would like.

Good point. I must remember when I'm talking about the US, its pretty BIG

[ishy]

On a more positive note! we had our first club round of the season this past Sunday, and the best turnout in well over a year, maybe trials can draw a few more new riders from the more expensive motorcycle sports with the economy being tight.

[copemech]

On a more positive note! we had our first club round of the season this past Sunday, and the best turnout in well over a year, maybe trials can draw a few more new riders from the more expensive motorcycle sports with the economy being tight.

You could be right there as well, Ish! I gave up on the high cost racing years ago(body and bikes)!

But all this being said, I gather that yourself as a dealer would simply prefer to just broker or deliver bikes and take your pittance as a comission? Forget about local support and all that comes with it? Or just be a Carmax? Hello, we whore bikes! Anything you want, at a profit! What to buy? What to sell?

Oh, you need service! We do not do that unless it is quick easy money! Otherwise go see a real dealer!

[paulthistle]

Only a small percentage of customers are internet buyers, most now are internet shoppers/ researchers.

The vast majority have an idea what they want, come look and decide to buy, based on the warm fuzzy you give them in the way of confidence and product knowledge.

Yamahas market research a few years ago showed that less than half of their YZ250 two strokes were ever raced. Hondas research showed that less than 15% of XR400's ever saw compettion.

So if you only ever showed trials bikes at a compettion or assumed all buyers would be participating in compettion, you would be missing a huge portion of customers/ potential sales.

While clearing sections for an upcoming trials. A friend who rides a few hare scrambles a year said he would like to have one "just to play around on.

One customer of mine from england, who lives in atlanta has 2 4RT's. He has no intention of competing, he just trail rides. But he bought 2 so when a friend was over they could ride as well.

Less than 15% buy based on price alone.

Trials bikes are high?

People spend a lot of money on crap. Yes a trials bike may seem expensive, But you don't have to do anything to it to ride. A YZ450F is $7299. A new nice mountain bike ranges from $2500 to $10K. There is always someone ready to buy. If you put to many hoops in front of them they will buy something else, dirt bike, flat screen, just fill in the blank. You have to make it easy. Bike with price tag on it. Think cave man, YOU BUY!! UGH! PRETTY!

I was having dinner at a friends, afterwards we wandered out to his garage. Inside he had an electric buggy, about 6 high end cannondale bicycles, an ATV I sold him, and a classic mustang and a harley. He only used the electric car once. He bought the bicycles for a ride in cades cove, unridden. The atv was $7900 two years old with 20 miles on it. He walked in my shop one day and just thought it looked cool, he wasn't there for an atv. The harley , same, low miles a few years old.

So get over the high price crap and admit you are the tight A@@S, that sees no value in service because you assume a dealer is going to rip you off.

Trials bikes arn't high, they are an example of low production custom motorcycle. Orange county choppers makes them to, starting at $80,000. But you will have to get on their waiting list.

[ptradam]

Hey Paul, sounds like your friend there has a little more disposable income than most of us! I'd also argue that a higher % of trials bikes are actually used for competition than MX/Enduro bikes are.

[ishy]

You could be right there as well, Ish! I gave up on the high cost racing years ago(body and bikes)!

But all this being said, I gather that yourself as a dealer would simply prefer to just broker or deliver bikes and take your pittance as a comission? Forget about local support and all that comes with it? Or just be a Carmax? Hello, we whore bikes! Anything you want, at a profit! What to buy? What to sell?

Oh, you need service! We do not do that unless it is quick easy money! Otherwise go see a real dealer!

You can be a Dick at times Cope, to tell you the truth I have been throwing good money away trying to help the sport for the past ten years " whore bikes1 easy money" **** you.

[fastducs]

Just to weigh in as a pure rider/consumer: I ride everything from street to enduro, and recently got into trials, and I own everything from mainstream Japanese bikes to exotic Italian. I bought my Montesa used, and spent a significant chunk of money rebuilding it. I consciously try to support my local dealers. My local kawasaki dealer gets my business because they stock a lot of parts, even though they are 15-20% more expensive than online, and occasionally I have to wait for the parts. But they try hard, and I appreciate it. I can afford to pay a bit of a premium in terms of $$, though I will draw the line at getting ripped off. Give me a fair price (not cheapest - just fair) and you'll have my business. But what's far more important is my time. If I order parts thru my closest Montesa dealer and then wait 1 week for parts to arrive, I then have to drive 1.5 hours each way to pick them up. My wife can forgive me a $300 hobby expenditure on eye candy for the bike, but she and the kids get ticked off if I spend half of Saturday picking up the parts. And please don't suggest to order thru my local dealer parts which he doesn't have, and then have him re-package and ship them to my house - it takes twice as long and costs even more, and what do I do if it's the wrong part and needs to be returned? It quickly becomes a logistical nightmare. Given the tremendous cost of inventory coupled with low demand I can't really fault my local trials dealers for not stocking much. So my challenge to the importers is as follows: please make it easy for me to support my local dealer! Let me order parts thru my local dealer, but drop-ship them directly to my door. I ride very few trials events, so having parts available at the events (which themselves are a couple hours away) is not much help to me.

I also promote trials when I get the chance. I sometimes go trail-riding, and enduro guys always come over to gawk at the seat-less bike. A few even take me up on my offer to take it for a spin. So if you want to promote the sport then this would be a good place to start. Have a demo truck at a few enduros and HS events, but mainly I would say you need presence at turkey runs - a lot of racers and recreational riders attend them. A hard core enduro racer would mostly be interested in trials if he thinks it can improve his enduro riding (thanks to Taddy, Geoff, and Knight) and recreational riders are open to trying new things like trials just for the fun of it.

[kjax]

So get over the high price crap and admit you are the tight A@@S, that sees no value in service because you assume a dealer is going to rip you off.

Trials bikes arn't high, they are an example of low production custom motorcycle. Orange county choppers makes them to, starting at $80,000. But you will have to get on their waiting list.

As an owner of numerous two wheel (and a few other motorized things) Trials bikes are without a doubt one of the most affordable bikes in the stable. They break less, and are competitive right out of the box. I too most always buy a recently used bike as opposed to brand new. On line purchases have treated me well, but due to a good local "garage" trials dealer I will buy from him as often as I can. In my opinion trials bikes are not out of proportion to the rising costy of any other machinery, and when combined with lower cost of competition (compared to Enduro, HS or MX or most other motorsports) Trials is a bargin!

I am very active in the promotion end of the off road motorcycle world, and personally am invloved in the promotion of a minimum 2-3 events per season. We in the trials community miss opporitunities everyday to promote our sport. And that is where we should all throw in just a bit more time and effort. If we advertise to the "non-trials" community, our sport (and the dealers) will see growth. That is a bit of an oversimplification, but nonetheless, very true.

My best (recent) example:

I chaired an event in Oct 2007 known as the Fall Color Tour here in mid Michigan. This is a 2 day, non competitive trail ride open to off road bikes and families with kids of all ages. In addition, it is a dual sport event. This event on it's own attracts over 500 paid sign ups each fall. I decided to take it a couple of steps further in 2007 so it was co-promoted as an AMA National Dual Sport ride and a MOTA Observed Trials. After some political dancing to keep each group happy we pulled it off. The two day event attracted nearly 1000 bodies, (most on bikes) who were treated to catered food on the trail and BBQ in the pits. A kick-butt trials exhibition on Sat night as well as the trials competition on Sunday was eye candy for the non trials off road riders. Total success, almost nothing to complain about (except we had to empty the porta johns WAY more than we planned) But once again, an amazing opporitunity was missed by the trials community to promote the business side of our community. Our club (Bent Wheels Comp. Club) has numerous sponsors (Toyota is the biggest) who support our club as we support them in the promotion of their businesses. I tried to get several trials dealers to sponsor (small cash or gifts for give aways- to buy in) without success. Even RYP said no thanks. On the plus side we will have at least three new (off road) riders starting in trials locally as a result, and I'm guessing several more that have taken note of what those funny looking bikes are all about.

This year we are doing an Endurocross series that is actively seeking trials guys to ride.

If we all break out of our "trials world" to promote to other "motorcycle people", maybe our dealers could make a living at this business!

[kjax]

I to want to thank you Ishy for all the same reasons as D Sileo. Great topic!

I have a saying that may apply here: "He who rests on laurels - gets knocked on a** "