Week 58 - All For One, One For All

[Andy]

I frequently have to search through papers, magazines, websites, forums and of course keep my ear to the ground to get an opening to my weekly column here on TC, but this week it

[Guest majestyman340]

If are able to sort out sections which are still challenging for a good over 40 expert on a modern bike, yet not completely over the top for an over 60 novice on a 1960s Bultaco, then I must contgratulate you! On the other hand if the entry to these "traditional" events is now made up mainly of pretty fair riders on modern bikes, with a small smattering of tricked up P65s and twinshocks with very good riders aboard, then maybe section setting isnt going to be quite so difficult a task?

[chewy]

I reckon you've hit a rich vein here Rappers as always you present a balanced perspective; one of the reported gripes regarding not being able to find or follow the section you should be riding reminded me of trials I've done in France usually at least four routes (but up to six) red .blue, green, yellow, white and black are the normal method of delineating the vatious routes laid out above in order of severity. At least they are consistent in this even if old codgers like me gets lost more than once a day in these conditions (usually having walked the section etc, mounting up and like being pulled by a magnet diving twixt a red on the right and a blue on the left). The other problem we seem not to adress here is making it clear for the observer to identify which route the rider should be following, in other words like many older riders I hanker after single route trials but understand that this limits the field however it would be sensible if at least we adress the points I have made above at a national level.

[vinnied]

but there are still many, many trials in which everybody could ride the same sections. It would mean some were way too hard, but they were back in my day and I frequently lost well over a hundred in a

[baldilocks]

Just picjing up on the point about getting lost in sections with many different routes.

I have mentioned this before but perhaps now have a solution.

In the North East centre we tend to use red and blue for the middle route, pairs of white flags for the easy course and pairs of yellow for the hard course. I don t think this is very effective as you can interperet the intended route at least two ways on the hard or easy course by passing between pairs of flags that are not intended to be paired. To make this clear in a gulley its obvious which are left and right but start using the bankings and you can go in and out of the wrong pair or in the wrong order. The observer can clarify IF they know but they shouldnt have to, it should be clear to all.

My question is does ACU handbook specify you must use flags ? If not why dont we move to the system used in the world rounds where you pass through colured arrows for your course. Because of the arrows you always go through the right pair, we could go further by numbering the arrows. just a suggestion.

[andat]

I can well recall looking at a very difficult section in a Devon national in which Malcolm Rathmell, Martin Lampkin and Rob Shepherd were all competing, and thinking to myself even then, what on earth am I doing trying to get up this gully.

Back in the late 70's, there often used to be a Hillsborough Club Trial the day after the Irish World Round, and Dave Thorpe used to persuade a few of them to come back to the mainland for a play. I remember riding as a raw novice youngster against the likes of Vesty, Coutard, Karlson et al. and thought it was brilliant and couldn't give a monkey's how many marks I dropped. But times have changed and not only has the gap between world superstar and club novice never been wider, but there is also a gaping chasm of abilities to be catered for in 'National Trials' as Rappers points out. Which brings me to my point: My club runs the Peak Trial in November and it seems we will have to cater this year (as in previous years) for Championship Sidecars (I think there are now FOUR classes), Traditional Classes A-E and 'Experts' & 'Clubmen' on modern bikes that don't fall into Traditional Classes D&E to make the numbers up. By my reconning thats potentially ELEVEN different routes. Nobody in their right mind is going to do that (apart from, aparently, the French), so we have to find a compromise, which usually means we end up with three routes from which we then have to decide which Class rides which route.

[nigel dabster]

Back in the late 70's, there often used to be a Hillsborough Club Trial the day after the Irish World Round, and Dave Thorpe used to persuade a few of them to come back to the mainland for a play. I remember riding as a raw novice youngster against the likes of Vesty, Coutard, Karlson et al. and thought it was brilliant and couldn't give a monkey's how many marks I dropped. But times have changed and not only has the gap between world superstar and club novice never been wider, but there is also a gaping chasm of abilities to be catered for in 'National Trials' as Rappers points out. Which brings me to my point: My club runs the Peak Trial in November and it seems we will have to cater this year (as in previous years) for Championship Sidecars (I think there are now FOUR classes), Traditional Classes A-E and 'Experts' & 'Clubmen' on modern bikes that don't fall into Traditional Classes D&E to make the numbers up. By my reconning thats potentially ELEVEN different routes. Nobody in their right mind is going to do that (apart from, aparently, the French), so we have to find a compromise, which usually means we end up with three routes from which we then have to decide which Class rides which route.

Dump the sidecars.

[andat]

Dump the sidecars.

Can't, its a sidecar champ round and it's not a viable trial with just chairs.

[nigel dabster]

Can't, its a sidecar champ round and it's not a viable trial with just chairs.

Ahh so the chairs aren't viable but yet the sections will be set out to suit them but not the traditional boys who vastly outnuber the sidecars, and you wonder why Rapley gets 145 and you lot less than 100???????

This is wrong, if the chairs don't add up in terms of numbers dump them.

[Guest majestyman340]

Ahh so the chairs aren't viable but yet the sections will be set out to suit them but not the traditional boys who vastly outnuber the sidecars, and you wonder why Rapley gets 145 and you lot less than 100???????

This is wrong, if the chairs don't add up in terms of numbers dump them.

Have to agree with this 100%.............its a real shame lots of organisers seem to want to mainly cater for chairs, which make up for a tiny part of the entry, create mega queing problems, and mean sections are pretty much a waste of time for solos! Saying that though the "traditional" rounds are generally only very sparsely supported by riders of "traditional" bikes, so maybe inclusion of the chairs has something to do with the traditional element of the events?

[paioli]

Just picjing up on the point about getting lost in sections with many different routes.

I have mentioned this before but perhaps now have a solution.

In the North East centre we tend to use red and blue for the middle route, pairs of white flags for the easy course and pairs of yellow for the hard course. I don t think this is very effective as you can interperet the intended route at least two ways on the hard or easy course by passing between pairs of flags that are not intended to be paired. To make this clear in a gulley its obvious which are left and right but start using the bankings and you can go in and out of the wrong pair or in the wrong order. The observer can clarify IF they know but they shouldnt have to, it should be clear to all.

My question is does ACU handbook specify you must use flags ? If not why dont we move to the system used in the world rounds where you pass through colured arrows for your course. Because of the arrows you always go through the right pair, we could go further by numbering the arrows. just a suggestion.

colured arrows ,if you have a blue sticker on your number you pass between the blue pairs, they use this system in classic

events in Belgium ,France & Germany , 4 / 5 routes, long sections , brilliant events , don't knock it, until you try it !

[jordi]

the "traditional" rounds are generally only very sparsely supported by riders of "traditional" bikes, so maybe inclusion of the chairs has something to do with the traditional element of the events?

The two rounds this weekend have both got more of your "traditional " bikes than modern, so that rather knocks that into the cocked hat!

[paioli]

Whats a traditional bike , or is that another argument !

[rowly]

Dont forget, the Sidecars may only have an entry of 30, that makes 60 people riding. More viable than you think!

[sarider]

But it all proved to be a steep learning curve