Scottish Pre 65 Forks?

[superhondaman]

Are leading axle forks allowed in scotland? The front page of T&MX (sorry MX News) from 9th May shows a pair being used.

[motomike]

Hi Superhondaman

Leading axle forks where standard fitment on Royal Enfields,dating back to pre 60,

so I guess they are.

But I think you are refering to much later forks ,so thats up to the organisers ?

[woody]

Yes, Enfields had leading axle alloy sliders. I had a pair that I was going to use on my C15 and get better internals fitted etc. as my Ossa forks (although looking like anything else used in Scotland) aren't allowed. However, finding someone to do it for me and then the cost of doing it (horrifying) meant it just wasn't possible. It's not something I can do myself so it didn't happen and I sold them.

As Enfield forks are genuine Pre65 and the eligibility stance has for some years been 'period look', regardless of what the eligibility criteria actually says, I really don't see why a pair of Bultaco or Marzocchi forks can't be used - how different are they going to look, when modified slightly, from the Enfield sliders on Murray's bike.

I've long since given up trying to make any sense of it, other than it's who you are that determines what you can get away with. This year they have apparently inspected every bike and compared the components fitted against the components that the competitor had to declare are fitted to the bike when entering. Competitors have been advised of minor indescretions in order that they can be corrected for next year.

So, for example, when a bike was being examined and the competitor has stated the following on the form:-

Fork yokes - Pre65 BSA, Triumph or whatever

Hubs - Pre65 BSA Triumph or whatever

and the scrutineer looks at the bike and sees nice shiny Alan Whitton billet machined hubs, brakeplates, yokes, I wonder what happened, as the form states they must be Pre65 design only.

I guess next year, all those bikes with those billet components fitted will have had them removed and replaced with original steel assemblies - yeah, right...

I can understand what the committee wanted to do, along time ago perhaps, but 1) it's way too late now and 2) the way the eligibility rules are interpreted and enforced is utterly inconsistent. I know someone who has used polished Fantic 200 yokes for years without problem and will use them again next year without a problem.

Personally I don''t care what they fit to their bikes and I've nothing against them, I just wish the organiser's stance would be to understand that not everyone can throw pots of money at specialists to build a bike that 'complies' with the regs. There are people who can modify their own bikes using parts from breakers that will bolt straight on and give them working suspension and alloy hubs, for a fraction of the cost of the specialist bikes. Why force Joe Bloggs on a limited budget to compete on a standard uncompetitive bike against the richer man's bells and whistles modernised version....

Or am I seeing it all wrong?

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's

Hi Woody.

Are you then telling us that all them shine'y new looking James's were not pre 65?

Regard's Charlie.

[totalshell]

i can understand the frustration about not been able to use outwardly similar fantic/montesa/bultaco parts when a fair proportion of riders have mazzochi internals inside heavily machined sliders held together by cnc'd yokes.

the argument though is where would it stop if your fantic yokes and ossa forks were allowed.. bultaco frame.. ty internals.. we'd all end up running 70's bikes and look at the mod's and arguments that surrond those at the moment.

so the spirt is pre65 in appearance and british bikes with outwardly british parts around some simple basic rules ( brit carbs on brit bikes) etc.

as in all sports we will always see those who train a little harder, watch thier diet more carefully, spend money on the latest 'must haves' and in the pre 65 we see 'new' james's Ariels, Royal Enfields.

BUT... there are plenty of bikes built simply with period stuff from auto jumbles and out of the back of sheds and run on a shoe string by genuine clubmen who ride every weekend supporting the sport all year who aren't fazed about winning but where the taking part is the most important part of the weekend

what was it they used to say ''sport for all''

[woody]

so the spirt is pre65 in appearance and british bikes with outwardly british parts around some simple basic rules ( brit carbs on brit bikes) etc.

But that's my point entirely - they don't look Pre65 in appearance with all those billet parts.

I didn't really want to start off the whole eligibility topic again as firstly it's been done to death, secondly it goes nowhere and thirdly I'm sick to the back teeth with the absurdity of it all. However, when I read the statement about machine scrutineering at this year's event I couldn't help myself. I might even go up there next year just to see for myself whether 'offending parts' are used again on certain bikes....

I also can't understand the fuss about non-British carbs - did no-one make carburettors before 1965 apart from Amal and Villiers??? Was it not possible to fit another type of carb before 1965? Surely not?

Most Amals have worn out by now. Yes you can buy new Amals but they are not particularly good. I bought one for my C15 and it wouldn't come off idle properly and spit stalled regularly. Turned out the pilot airway was blocked from casting and had to be drilled out. Now it runs ok. Bought an Amal for my Bultaco recently, exactly the same spec as the original (on which the body is worn so runs on and won't shut off through drawing air) Guess what - the bike wouldn't even start when it always starts first kick. Needed a bigger pilot to get it running and it is still too weak even with a #35 to accelerate properly off idle although #35 is way too big and makes it very lumpy off idle. So probably an internal passageway blocked again so more drilling required. It may or may not cure it. Or just fit a Mukini or OKO to make the bike run as the designer intended with no hassle - but not possible on Pre65 - although Yorkshire Classic (or Red Rose ??) allow Dellorto on Cubs only.... Why..??

Totally agree with your last paragraph - i'ts what I've done with my C15 but part of the enjoyment is riding to the best of my ability and be at the sharp end of the results if I can. I can't compete against the others on a standard bike. All I want is a bike on which the suspension works, no trick lightweight frame or billet hubs etc. It has original frame, a steel Bantam rear hub, Grimeca front (looks like British conical if polished) Ossa forks which look like MP which are very common, Cota yokes which are virtually identical to the billet yokes that many are using with no problem. Cost of my front end =

[totalshell]

dellorto carbs on cubs... yorks classic were lobbied by a number of riders ( about 3 years ago and it was put to the members at an AGM i think) )to allow the carb as many felt ( rightly ) that cubs with amals 'stall/cough' on lift off and so were 'unrideable' and 'uncompetative' ( less accurate)

similarly bantams 10 years ago were very much 'frowned upon' by the same club with the insistance that only 3 speed bikes with the frames loop below the engine in place as originally manufactured and i remember only 1 occasinlly been ridden. today 4 speeds are the norm ( again via an agm rule change) and one or two have lost that frame loop below the engine

red rose have a very relaxed view point in comparison with the view that its better to be riding something than nothing and that eventually you'll get sucked in and buy the right stuff

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy

[tony283]

This was an ex Don Morley 350 Bullet and it's last UK trial was the 2005 Pre 65. The forks seem to work well enough in competition now that the old girl is up and running. The yokes had to be changed for a new set made by Spartan, the originals had self tapping screws as the only way to hold the bars steady. The front wheel is also standard Royal Oilfield. I'm running a 26mm Mikuni, who, if we get into all those nasty back biting "What is and what isn't allowed" discussions made AMALs under licence back in the 50's !

A great fun bike to ride, despite the weight!

Tony

[axulsuv]

I know that bullet ! (beasti)

Glenn

[vinnied]

This was an ex Don Morley 350 Bullet and it's last UK trial was the 2005 Pre 65. The forks seem to work well enough in competition now that the old girl is up and running. The yokes had to be changed for a new set made by Spartan, the originals had self tapping screws as the only way to hold the bars steady. The front wheel is also standard Royal Oilfield. I'm running a 26mm Mikuni, who, if we get into all those nasty back biting "What is and what isn't allowed" discussions made AMALs under licence back in the 50's !

A great fun bike to ride, despite the weight!

Tony

Lovely Bike

Vinnie

[steve]

A great fun bike to ride, despite the weight!

Tony

I bet the bike is fairly heavy aswell !!!!!

Sorry Tony, looks great. Really good attention to detail. I bet it wasn't that colour when Don Morely rode it, Very Bling!

[tony283]

200 for the rider and down to 279 from 309 on the bike. The new lightweight front wheel weighed in at 21 lbs as compared to the original full width Enfield hub at 21 lbs !..... and it didn't fit. Saved 7 lbs by replacing the Enfield back wheel, a load more from the under engine center stand bolts and tubes. The nicest item is the integrated clutch and decompressor lever with needle roller bearings.

Tony