Andy Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 It Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickwren Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 Not quite sure who wrote this as it appears under Rappers and Andy, but as it quotes 42 years experience it must be Rappers because Andy can't be much more than 25 !!! Anyone who starts to read this will probably think Mick Wren jumps in to defend the ACU again, but quite a lot of what Rappers wrote is quite true. Most of the responsibility for running and disciplining the event does lie with the Clerk of the Course, this is quite true. From a personal point of view there have been many times when I have known that there was absolutely no need for me to have been at a particular trial as the organisers of the vast majority of events are superb. There are however a couple of points I have to take issue with. Firstly it is a condition of the insurance policy, a Steward validates the cover for the event. Secondly to include the permit fee in the figure quoted slightly distorts the picture. A National permit is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpaf Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 I don't wish to get onto the debate regarding the National stewards but I do agree with Rappers concerning future National events due to our rapidly increasing transport costs. Certainly from my own perspective, for years now I have just about managed to keep up with the game transporting my son around the country competing at youth National events. Unfortunately, I think things will have to change and I think the ACU should begin to make changes to reduce the travelling involved. Taking my own situation as an example, I don't forsee me having more disposable income than last year, in fact it will possibly be less. I suspect this will be the case for many people. Yet our transport costs, particularly for those riding nationally, have increased massively. The result being you will attend less events or certainly miss the furthest events - once you've missed one or two then whats the point in doing any? Okay, so it isn't going to affect every rider or every trial in the same way - but I do think it will affect National championships. I suppose it already happens to some degree but the riders with the fattest wallet will be champions irrespective of their talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 I know this is off topic... but...Have you seen the front page article about the Italian federations awards and info truck that was at this weekends world round?.. it isn't for the world rounds really but for the Italian national championship. Look at the teams in the Italian nationals... big name sponsors and corporate visibility and not a bad turn out of riders i hear. Their teams even seem to employ all our top up and coming riders !!! Not seen it... try here Now why isn't the ACU doing this for our national championship... pulling it out of the dark ages and making it appealing to outside sponsors and attracting a crowd to watch, and therefore press coverage? I have been to 3 rounds of the British championship this year and although the actual sections are great to watch i could have driven past every one of them and for anyone that may have been faintly pulled in from the outside world it would have looked as though they had stumbled upon a club trial. No doubt the ACU will say that is up to the clubs but as they aren't actually getting anything for holding the trial, apart from a few pence that one has charged for parking and maybe a program if you happen to find someone selling one. You need the public to see these events, that may mean holding them close or even in a town or at least having some promotion and a professional image. As Andy put it so well on the homepage story... "It does beg the question as to how they can afford all this investment in the sport and these advanced technologies when others don't even have a Transit van present at events. Yes, they have some big name sponsors, but surely you have to speculate to accumulate? By investing and presenting a professional and serious image, the ability to attract sponsors becomes easier. Either way, the Italians have it sussed..." Whilst it would be nice to have such a vehicle this topic is about reducing costs as Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickymicky Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Not quite sure who wrote this as it appears under Rappers and Andy, but as it quotes 42 years experience it must be Rappers because Andy can't be much more than 25 !!!Anyone who starts to read this will probably think Mick Wren jumps in to defend the ACU again, but quite a lot of what Rappers wrote is quite true. Most of the responsibility for running and disciplining the event does lie with the Clerk of the Course, this is quite true. From a personal point of view there have been many times when I have known that there was absolutely no need for me to have been at a particular trial as the organisers of the vast majority of events are superb. There are however a couple of points I have to take issue with. Firstly it is a condition of the insurance policy, a Steward validates the cover for the event. Secondly to include the permit fee in the figure quoted slightly distorts the picture. A National permit is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickwren Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 A couple of points to respond to Yes the Italians have a brilliant truck, but they would love to have our riders ( Dibble, Browny, Jack) Point made by trickymicky the steward has to be appointed but not necesarily to attend for the insurance to be valid Most importantly the ACU issued a system of OPEN PERMITS so that many events have the option of running a high calibre event without the red tape involved in a National event. Most clubs have chosen to continue running as a National because they like the status. They could chose to do away with the expense but don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john collins Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 There seems to be quite a few issues here. a) Firstly - Mike has raised a fairly valid point - and one which we are very aware of - not least because it affects our own Clubs apart form our position on any C/tee. Unfortunately - Mike is only looking at part of the situation - obviously the part he is aware of - but I am afraid it is a bit more complicated than he implied Mick Wren has answered some of this The situation - and we have discussed all this before of Italian/French super trucks at WC events etc c) The appearance/razz mataz - or lack of it at BC rounds. I find it difficult to link the three - or certainly (a) to the others - which of course was the topic of the post. I am quite prepared to offer some thoughts - but in no way can this be done in a few lines - or even a page - the Stewards situation alone needs a fair amount of explanation especially as it is fairly apparent that their exact role is not all that clear. If TC readers (is that correct word?) Wish me to try to explain - I will do so - if not I will leave it to your own deliberations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 I don't wish to get onto the debate regarding the National stewards but I do agree with Rappers concerning future National events due to our rapidly increasing transport costs. Certainly from my own perspective, for years now I have just about managed to keep up with the game transporting my son around the country competing at youth National events. Unfortunately, I think things will have to change and I think the ACU should begin to make changes to reduce the travelling involved. Taking my own situation as an example, I don't forsee me having more disposable income than last year, in fact it will possibly be less. I suspect this will be the case for many people. Yet our transport costs, particularly for those riding nationally, have increased massively. The result being you will attend less events or certainly miss the furthest events - once you've missed one or two then whats the point in doing any? Okay, so it isn't going to affect every rider or every trial in the same way - but I do think it will affect National championships. I suppose it already happens to some degree but the riders with the fattest wallet will be champions irrespective of their talent. Just not true, you spend your money how you want to but I bet you could save some money on luxuries if you wanted. I think that the acu could do alot more by having insisting on double headers sat/sun events therefore halving the costs at a stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 (edited) Whilst it would be nice to have such a vehicle this topic is about reducing costs as Edited June 30, 2008 by Nigel Dabster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 ... i wasn't actually asking for a super truck. Just a more professional looking national championship... one that may perhaps encourage a bit of outside, or even inside, sponsorship... or even just interest from the outside world would be nice. At the moment we have a 10 man championship that outwardly looks like a hard club trial, with no one watching apart from riders mates and family.... and by the way... the Italians have got our riders. Dibs only rides here when no Italian event is on and the other two go over to train and be with their teams!! I'm with r2w on this a bit more professionalism and advertising is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Just not true, you spend your money how you want to but I bet you could save some money on luxuries if you wanted. And whilst I personally agree with that comment, sadly it sums up the very point that Rappers was making. For the majority of us..... trials is that very luxury that we could save some money on! But what ever happens, ACU please please don't spend any money on trucks. If you can get a big sponsor who wants that type of image, then fine, let them buy and run the big truck, otherwise 'our' money would be better spent on the grass roots level of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpaf Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Just not true, you spend your money how you want to but I bet you could save some money on luxuries if you wanted. No seriously it is true, simple bloody economics, if I have the same amount of money as last year and costs have risen significantly - we do less trials! No endless pot of money here and already doing two jobs. Apart from using newspaper for bog roll I can't really cut back much more. Trials is the 'luxury'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Just not true the italians french and spanish all have great youngsters, look at the top ten youths this weekend, only two british. You also see the French Trials federation rep (I don't know his official title) going round with Gubian to ensure when there is an observer dispute, it can normally be 'negotiated' to his benefit. Gubian is a very good rider but his scores are helped by the '3rd' man on his team. . Section 6 last lap was 'negotiated' to a clean from a text book dab as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 (edited) Just not true the italians french and spanish all have great youngsters, look at the top ten youths this weekend, only two british. They might well have lots of people entered but one of the top Italian teams hired a british rider who is the current leader of the championship. Thats the point I'm trying to make, despite the Italian federations investment and the money put in by top trial team and trw Italian riders arent doing the winning. British riders have won an awful lot of championships without the same kind of investment by the ACU or anyone else. If a riders good enough they will get the support but putting in the support regardless guarantees no results. Edited June 30, 2008 by Baldilocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) You also see the French Trials federation rep (I don't know his official title) going round with Gubian to ensure when there is an observer dispute, it can normally be 'negotiated' to his benefit. Gubian is a very good rider but his scores are helped by the '3rd' man on his team. . Section 6 last lap was 'negotiated' to a clean from a text book dab as an example. There you go, being at events is an education! You are refering to the famous Thierry Michaud who despite your assumption as a "third" helper is in fact the french FNM representative. (look that up in the rules) He is not suposed to do what he does in the way he does and I think gives his riders, but mainly Gubian as there great hope, outside assistance and even 2nd minder duties. Think it was two years back when Alexz was in Poland that he was disputing scores and arguing on Loris's behalf. The ACU did in fact have a parallel official at the event, did you not see him? Edited July 1, 2008 by Nigel Dabster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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