tael Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 (edited) Hello All, just completed a 180mile round trip to pick up this Its as far as I can tell a MkIII cota 247 in tatty but mostly complete condition (only the airbox not present) The plan is to get it in a running and into a basically useable condition to do a few white route wobblers trials with my local club, as I want to get back into trials after a 20yr+ layoff (i.e. since I was a teenager) ive got three years of practice time before i'm eligible for the over-40 class . I had better point out now that this is NOT going to be a full restoration job (yet) as ive got enough roadbike projects to keep me busy at the moment, but who knows for the future The frame no is 21m674* and the engine 21m672* so although they don't match they're within 20-odd of each other. First question for anyone with more experience of these than me (i.e. most of you), it would appear to have an earlier (MKII) LH engine cover fitted. Am I right with this assumption, and what issues may this cause? Oh and would I be correct in dating it to 1972? Terry, in unseasonally sunny Norfolk U.K. (oh and it was v.cheap too, so not bothered that I appear to have brought another likely moneypit ) EDIT: having found another site with more model info it appears its a very early MkIV not III, hence the later style bodywork and top-end, MkIV started at number 6600 in '72 according to here- http://www.geocities.com/cotamontesa/ Edited October 13, 2008 by Tael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tael Posted October 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 (edited) Another technical question, Why would the kickstart be clipping the end of the gearlever (and knocking it into gear ) at the end of its travel?? I've moved the kickstart forwards a few splines from the pic above, but it is still clipping the end of it, its really putting a cramp on trying to get it started!! Should there be a stop to the kickstarts travel? it will go right round to beyond the lower vertical and a begin to come up again forwards a small amount Is it as simple as 'Thats not the right kickstart lever?' Edited October 12, 2008 by Tael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Yes it is the wrong kickstart lever. I'm not sure if the 247 arrangement is the same as the 348 but if it is, then yes there should be a stop but the stop is a bit fragile and yours may have been broken by overrotation of the kickstart shaft. Remove the magneto flywheel cover and all will be revealed. There is lots of info available here about your 247 http://www.southwestmontesa.com/ David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tael Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Yes it is the wrong kickstart lever.I'm not sure if the 247 arrangement is the same as the 348 but if it is, then yes there should be a stop but the stop is a bit fragile and yours may have been broken by overrotation of the kickstart shaft. Remove the magneto flywheel cover and all will be revealed. There is lots of info available here about your 247 http://www.southwestmontesa.com/ David Thanks David, investigated inside the cover and the stop is still on the shaft, but the internal webbing it hits against is broken up so that explains that. Solved the kickstart issue, as now I know the kickstart isnt original it was 'adjusted' with my vice and a large stillson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tael Posted October 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) Ok when I stated above that this wasnt going to become a full on restoration I may have been a bit hasty Rode it about at the weekend and was pleasantly surprised - everything seems ok and works quite well but the engines bogging on part throttle (better when warm but still not good) so either the carbs v.worn (which it is) or the crank seals need doing (which for a '72 bike isnt surprising) so the engines out and is gonna get properly gone through. then I started stripping the rest, you know how it is, quiet sunday with nothing else to do and a garage full of tools, Now I know where I can get powdercoating done at cost so can anyone help me with the correct colour for the frame please?? I know being a '72 it should be grey but does anyone know the paintcode (or RAL colour) I need, and would it be matt, gloss or satin (I'd guess gloss) As for the carb, it seems the OKO flatslides appear to be the best cost/performance/ease of fitting compromise, so does anyone have experience of fitting them to an old twinshock like this ? (Found the OKO.co.uk site and will be contacting them down the line for advice) For some reason OKO wont work on the search function on here, though ive found a couple of mentions of them by searching for 'carb' Thanks T. Edited October 19, 2008 by Tael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooshdave Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Ok when I stated above that this wasnt going to become a full on restoration I may have been a bit hasty Yeah, that's pretty standard. Crank seals are the first thing you change when you get an old two stroke. Let's you see how things inside are put together too. Or how badly the PO put them back together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 When you split the crankcases try and do it gently and leave the gearbox in the right hand case (ie; kickstart lever side) The gears run on the shafts using three rollers/pins as bearings. There are three sets of three. Each set is a different length. The parts manual shows each set but doesn't show which is which in terms of their length. I split mine and managed to keep everything in one piece. Inevitabley, something happened afterwards which resulted in gears sliding off shafts and rollers dropping onto the bench. When I put it back together I've now got to work out which set goes where and from what I've seen so far it doesn't look obvious. Hopefully this will save you from doing the same.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooshdave Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 When you split the crankcases try and do it gently and leave the gearbox in the right hand case (ie; kickstart lever side)The gears run on the shafts using three rollers/pins as bearings. There are three sets of three. Each set is a different length. The parts manual shows each set but doesn't show which is which in terms of their length. I split mine and managed to keep everything in one piece. Inevitabley, something happened afterwards which resulted in gears sliding off shafts and rollers dropping onto the bench. When I put it back together I've now got to work out which set goes where and from what I've seen so far it doesn't look obvious. Hopefully this will save you from doing the same.... You have to split the crankcases to change the seals or just look at the kickstart stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tael Posted October 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Thanks Woody i'll def. be careful with the gearshafts then.... As Dave says dont need to split cases for crankseals, but likely to as I want to check gearbox as had some trouble finding neutral when engine was hot n running. Plus I can properly look at the insides to see whats happened in its long life (Its only 1 yr younger than I am so bound to be a bit knackered somewhere in there!) may do crank bearings as well if they look tired, Sandifords have them in stock and theyre not particularly expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 You have to split the crankcases to change the seals or just look at the kickstart stop? No, crank seals are like the Bulto, fitted into bolt on carriers. Kickstart stop I'm not sure about as I haven't really looked at that yet but someone else said not. I was assuming that a full engine strip was on the cards - I've been in the 'I only need to replace this bit and it will be ok' situation myself and ended up with the thing in bits.... too many times actually... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandukedaisy Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Yes it is the wrong kickstart lever.I'm not sure if the 247 arrangement is the same as the 348 but if it is, then yes there should be a stop but the stop is a bit fragile and yours may have been broken by overrotation of the kickstart shaft. Remove the magneto flywheel cover and all will be revealed. There is lots of info available here about your 247 http://www.southwestmontesa.com/ David Yes definetly the wrong lever. I have a 247 (1971) and the kicker does not have a dog leg shape, it is straight. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belldane Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 Hi guys If it is of any help, I am in the process of restoring another old Cota 247 and when I split the cases, no matter how careful I was, the same thing hapened to me. I ended up with half a crankcase of gears and dowell pins. There are definately three different sizes. The pin lenght on the primary shaft (input) is 21mm. on the output shaft the pins between 1st and 2nd gear are 24mm and the pins between 4th and 5th are 28.5mm. If you are not sure where those gears are go to www.southwestmontesa.com and on the home page at the top select Repair Manual. In that Manual there is a section on gearboxes and details of where each gear is located. Hope that helps. Belldane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 Thanks for that - very useful info as I'm going to be putting mine back together in the next week or so and I wasn't looking forward to it much. The Mont engine seems such a contrived piece of design, almost as though they were thinking how complicated can we make this.... A Bultaco or even an Ossa with its gearbox shims are so much more straightforward to work on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belldane Posted November 11, 2008 Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 Oh well Like one of our Prime Mnisters here in Australia once said " Life was not meant to be easy" Malcolm Fraser that was and he actually owned some Bultacos. ( he must have had Montesas before that!!). I have just finished putting my motor back together with no dramas. One thing to whatch out for when putting the gearbox back in is that you assemble the whole lot together on a bench (input and output shafts with all gears and pins as well as the gear slider drum attached) and put it into half the crankcase as a unit. Put plently of grease on those dowell pins and those little ******* shims as evething will fall out. Oh almost forgot! While you have the motor in pieces I suggest you check all the internal bearings because if they are a bit suspect now, they may fail on you in the not too far distant future and you will have to go through all this bull**** again. I also suggest putting new seals on the crankcases. The other seals don't worry about. If they leak you don't have to take the flywheel and the clutch off tom replace them. Have fun and please let me know if you run into problems. Belldane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.