toofasttim Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 (edited) "correct formula for giving challenge while providing enough cleans for entry level riders to give them both confidence and enjoyment to come back and try again. ""It is not our responsibility to make national or world champions, but we do need to do what is best for our club members at the club events. " Thinking....(dangerous in my case). Ish, IMO, you're on the nail regarding severity, but how do you get people hooked? Andy I think this topic warrants moving to Trials General. I "feel" (had to get the touchy/feely stuff in there) it's important. Edited October 14, 2004 by TooFastTim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric23 Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Modern MX is downright dangerous and expensive. Enduro riding has more than its share of riding wounded as well. So what's my point? There is a group of chronicly injured riders out there looking for a change. For example, just this week a local ISDE medlist from Poland with carple tunnel problems bought a trials bike. He posted this info on a local singletrack trail rider's forum seeking info. Myself and the one other trials rider participating on the forum jumped in and passed on as much info as we could. He showed up to our Holbrook trials and had a blast. I'm sure he won't give up enduros and trail riding, but he will be riding trials again. He also posted a great ride report on the same forum and now other guys are interested as well. Another singletrack rider friend of mine started his own website and forum to organize rides in the Phoenix area. He was nice enough to set up a trials forum for me to moderate. I've posted some trials info, pictures and let folks know when we're practicing. As Ishy has pointed out the clubs need to have a variety of sections so that these guys can ride, have fun, not get hurt yet still feel challenged. If they decide to just ride for fun, there needs to be a place for them. Most importantly, many of these guys are older and have families. When they see the great family atmosphere and wonderful kids in our sport, they will want their kids to join in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne thais Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Alan, I think the guys in Ok have a great idea to increase participation. They provided a nice "PURSE" can you believe it, they actually gave away MONEY. I asked one of the promotors how they came up with that idea and he told me that the club has some bicycle racers in it. Most of the local bicycle races give away money, it is not uncommon for the guy who finishes in 5th place to win enough to pay for his entry fee. I think this is a giant step forward and needs to be pursued. Our bicycle club would hold at least one bicycle race each year and always gave away 2 or 3 thousand dollars, the local merchants all kicked in $50 or $100 dollars and it added up pretty fast. What do you think, is this the next step? Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 I'm not convinced. Who do you give the money to. All classes, expert only? We get enough 'sandbaggers' already, staying on the beginner route for as long as possible losing bugger all at every trial, just to try and snap up an award at the end of the year. Most people are happy to accelerate their way through to whatever class their ability puts them in, but would they if there was money up for grabs, or would they hang on as long as possible until they were pushed? If it's just for the experts, then that's not a problem, but if you put on quality sections you drag the experts in. Our club trial had 20 experts last week. When you consider there are 14 classes these days, that's pretty good. I don't think you can mark a trial out in one day. Needs at least a day to dig out new sections and a day to put the flags in and adjust them. If you've seriously thought about a section people can tell. As far as dragging new people in, Brian Pucket in South Wales runs a worthwhile scheme, I think on behalf of their ACU centre. Three Beta's and a Sprinter van, available for use for people who think they would like a go at trials. I don't know the full details but maybe someone on here knows? Cycle trials I think is a good way of introducing people cheaply. I think we should have a closer relationship with these too. Nice stepping stone in to trials? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne thais Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 We could probably learn some lessons from the bicycle racing world, here in the US, there is a "National" governing body, if you race and win so many races, (based on points per place) you are moved up a class. you start out as a class five and are automatically moved up as you win. This helps weed out the "sandbaggers". Here in the US we do not seem to have a strong national structure for the local events, the nationals are another story. A bicycle racer who is a member of the national organization can race anywhere in the US and he knows what the rules are and what the classes are, until we reach that status we will remain a splinter (splintered) sport and serious people will look at us and think we are unorganized. (my opinion) We need to get organized on a national scale, same rules, same classes etc.! Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlracer Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Wayne , I agree same rules same classes would help. I don't want to get started on that , I type to slow. A long, long time ago we used a point system here locally for moving up. I don't think money would be the answer for all classes, just the pro class. Maybe it would allow some of the pro's to make enough money to support there interest. Where they could ride 10-20 events across the U.S. We (NEOTT) set an example here at the Oklahoma central region event. Let others follow !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Ish, IMO, you're on the nail regarding severity, but how do you get people hooked? Tim, do what the buggers who try and get our kids hooked on drugs do! give em the first few events rides for free, make the course easy and fun for the entry level, you can't make novice section too easy in my book, once the flags/ribbon is up it starts a gravitational pull against the foot and the buggers dab just because there is a marker there. Those riders who improve will want to move up to a harder line to test their new found skills, the main factor is getting the steps in ability at the right level without over doing it or riders will quit or move back down a class, if a rider is totally comfortable riding where they are and don't want to move up even if they won that class the previous year, then they should be allowed to ride that class on an none award basis. I think a 50% increase from novice to intermediate, by riding half the toughest novice lines and half the easiest next class up line, the next step up is the same Half the hardest intermediate line and half the easiest next class up line, that way a rider moving up a class should be able to clean 50% of the easier lines. I would like to see all classes just be named A,B,C,D etc then split markers placed with an arrow on them, all classes who's letter is on that arrow must go the way the arrow points, one section with well placed arrows can cater for a broad ability of riders without too much effort on the person marking out the event. TRIALS!! the anti drug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 OW!! My brain is starting to hurt from too much thinking. (this should be no surprise to any who know me.) I have a quick comment: I just like to ride trials, I am somewhat obssessed. At least that is what my wife says. We mention alot about the family atmosphere of trials, one of the many reasons I ride. But alot has been said about giving away prize money, do we really want to "bribe" people into riding. If we make the sport pay out in a monatary way people will stop helping other riders get better, there will no longer be a couple of riders discussing the best way to attempt a section. But my biggest fear is that with money involved riders will stop applauding a well done ride just for the sake of it being a well done ride. The riders will now be concerned with how the other rider is doing so well that it will cut back the chance of the rider to make money. Greed is a powerful thing and changes people. But this is only my opnion and I may be wrong I have been in the past and probably will be again in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliechitlins Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Maybe most people just wouldn't buy a motorcycle (or a car!) without a seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I still think the problem of dragging new people in to the sport boils down to: 1. How do I find out if I will like the sport without splashing out 1,2,3 Grand for a bike? 2. What the hell is trials? 3. What's the catch? ie How much is it actually going to cost me to do this sport? Most people here could answer 2 and 3, but I think the most important is number 1. There is no easy way in to the sport if you don't know someone in the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcidoug Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 On election day I'll put in a vote or two for some good ideas I've read in this treand. Wayne -- I like the idea of money for at least the top class for two reasons. This helps defer expenses for riders that can be call pro's in the national series. And, will bring more top riders to local events so we can see them ride. I for one ride better when I've just seen Ryan or Chris Florin ride. Ishy -- I'd love to see the standardised classes. Call them what you will; A,B,C,D, etc works for me. I know Alan B .has been beating this drum some lately. He's proposing six lines per section. This is something that may take time but will be good when it happens. I like the idea where if the class winner doesn't want to move up then he/she rides the next year for fun and is not competeing for points toward the year end results. It's fine if you want to be a sandbagger, but give someone else a chance to win the class. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtt Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 As "tongue in cheek" as Charlie's comment was, I truely beleive it is a very real factor. I hear it time and again. It's too bad all the manufacturer's didn't make a "long ride" version as I think it is ideal for folks to "get their feet wet". Bikespace's question #1 is also an other big issue. I know that two years ago, I had access to a second bike. It enabled me to take folks out to try the sport. This was very successfull. This year, I have not had that second bike available and enthusiasm has dropped notably. It's exactly as Ishy said...give 'em a taste and fuel the desire. Unfortunately I'm not sure how you do this as every one having 2 or more bikes, as cool as it would be , is not likely to happen. Jury is still out on the "pay classes" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringo Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Modern MX is downright dangerous Hey E, Did you say that with a lisp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric23 Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Modern MX is downright dangerous Hey E, Did you say that with a lisp? Me thinks the lady protesth too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringo Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Now that was funny!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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