wayne thais Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Here is a quote from the article about the recent Scott Trial "Amos Bilbao on the 4-stroke Montesa taking third - I guess that answers the questions over how the 4-T would perform in wet conditions! " If this answers the question about how well the new Montesa performs in wet conditions what does it say for the SHERCO? Graham has now won both the SSDT and the Scott on his Sherco and his score was about 1/2 that of Amos. I also noticed that Sherco mounted Sam Connor had a very nice finish. GO SHERCO! Great job Graham and Sam. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munch Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 not really , the monts a new model! the sherco is tried and tested we know its good. if it had been the sherco 4t that would be different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marky g Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 I say well done Honda/Montesa for trying the new model out in one of hardest trials in the world. It could have come in last but it would have proved the point of it's being there...to finish the trial. It just shows that the Honda boys want to make sure they get it right before letting it loose on the public. I noticed there was no Sherco Four stroke there Wayne!!! whats happened to it anyway? I havn't heard a thing for a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne thais Posted October 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Marky, I have not heard anything new either, I assume that they are finishing up all of the endurance testing. I had heard that the 450 4t had to run an exdurance test on the test bench before they released it for production. I would guess they are doing the same thing with the 3.2 4t. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 i echo Marky and say well done Honda/Montesa top result from a top bike. there is no doubt in my mind that ALL of the current crop of top trials bikes are fantastic pieces of kit, and the new Mont 4-stroke also falls in to this catergory. consider this Amos doesn't ride world rounds unlike graham and sam. Amos i suspect is more used to sun bleached rocks of spain than the conditions of the scott trial. the bike is new, and more importantly Amos lost 51 observed marks to Grahams's 47. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 I say well done Honda/Montesa for trying the new model out in one of hardest trials in the world.It could have come in last but it would have proved the point of it's being there...to finish the trial. It just shows that the Honda boys want to make sure they get it right before letting it loose on the public. I noticed there was no Sherco Four stroke there Wayne!!! whats happened to it anyway? I havn't heard a thing for a while now. Well, I think the general consensus would have been well done montesa if wayne and james had ridden production bikes and finished. The Sherco 4t is a mystery, my guess is they are waiting to see what the 4rt is like and if the demand is great enough to warrant the competition/production costs. The info I got was it is ready to go but the decision hasn't been made to go with it yet, they must have their reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 You have to keep in mind both Sherco and Montesa are working hard to get their new 4 stroke machines out to the dealers where Joe puplic will find all sorts of new ways to bugger them up. I would rather wait a month or two and make sure as many of those ways are removed from the list than get one early just to say I have one. I just learned my new 05 2.5 Sherco is ready to be shipped to me, the reason I bought one in all reality I may not get a 4T untill well into next year. I know this isn't an option for many and your chomping at the bit, but also many posters are just 2 stroke fans wanting to pull the bikes down every chance they get and don't intend buying one, that is untill they get the assets handed to em. VIVA LA FOUR STROKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonsurge Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 The only thing that worries me about the 4-strokes is the increased complexity, especially the Honda engine with all those electronics. I know that 4-stroke engines are generally more reliable than 2-strokes but at least with a 2-stroke it doesn't take serious mechanical knowledge to successfully perform even relatively "major" operations such as piston replacement or main bearings. I bet Montesa dealers are looking forward to the 4RT becoming available because the number of owners carting the bike back to the shop for servicing and repairs will shoot up and that's where many of the smaller dealers make their money given the relatively small profit margins on the bikes and parts themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munch Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 like dabster eh ish but will he buy a sherco 4t? some people like to knock montesa or any bike except the make they ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marky g Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 I've thought about it quite a bit, I know enough to get by on with my bikes engines, but as you say the Honda's complex design is a bit daunting to the average Joe. But thinking on, wasn't we all saying the same about electronic ignition when that came out to replace contact breaker points?? now I don't know of anything (bike or other) that still uses CB ignition. Automatic Gearbox's in car's was never going to catch on either I guess Let's just hope that Honda will make it that good it won't need replacing/fettling every five min's. Saying all that a new one will still be out of my reach unless the friggin lotto comes up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 (edited) The only thing that worries me about the 4-strokes is the increased complexity, especially the Honda engine with all those electronics. Oh B*****ks neon. Ya drive a car and spend b^&gerall time working on it in relation to your bike, what's the problem? Wayne, shuttup (not that you haven't a vested interest).. Edited October 29, 2004 by TooFastTim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 like dabster eh ish but will he buy a sherco 4t? I'll ride em both, if the Sherco feels and preforms good then I of course it would be my first choice, but if the Mont is the Dogs bits and a better bike to ride, well I don't mind been called a whore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonsurge Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 The only thing that worries me about the 4-strokes is the increased complexity, especially the Honda engine with all those electronics. Oh B*****ks neon. Ya drive a car and spend b^&gerall time working on it in relation to your bike, what's the problem? My car's engine doesn't get reguarly partially (or completely) submerged in water or covered in mud. My car's engine doesn't constantly go from zero to maximum revs and back down time after time during normal operation. My car doesn't get thrown onto rocks or into the undergrowth on at least a couple of occasions each time I drive it. I'm not against 4-strokes at all. I'm even considering buying one sometime next year. But to compare a relatively softly-tuned car engine to a highly stressed competition motorcycle engine is just daft. The new generation of trials bikes will require far, far more mechanical attention in its lifetime than your family Mondeo. It's much easier to work on a simple 2-stroke than it is to spend hours fiddling with the myriad of parts in a cam-driven, electronically fuel-injected 4-stroke where a mis-installed part is likely to result in a very expensive failure. If you're an experienced mechanic or are used to 4-stroke technology then it's not going to be a problem. All I'm saying is that for the majority of trials riders, all that additional gubbins will initimidate them into hauling the bike to the dealer whenever something goes wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windlestone Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 (edited) In 1976 i was looking for my first new bike. I loved Bultacos they looked great, Mart rode one and nearly every one else. I couldn't ride one to save my life. Just couldn't get away with the riding position and the power delivery. The Montesa's at the same time were my second choice but in the end i bought an Ossa. I found i could ride things easier and it suited my limited ability better. Probably more forgiving and less harsh than the others. I'm hopeful the new Mont 4 stroke or Sherco 4 stroke may be similar. The Mont is now first choice because it's available first, has a lot of new technology i'm really impressed with, and will i'm sure be bombproof like the 315's. The Sherco, that i'm still thinking of as a Bulto, looks the nicest of all the bikes in my opinion but again i just cannot ride the two stroke as well as i can my Gas Gas. Every one keeps saying the more technology that goes into things the more there is to go wrong. Very true. But if we all listened and acted on that rubbish we'd be sitting at typewriters every night and driving cars with manual windows Now my thinking cap is back on in case the Sherco appears first! Who can carry out a 100 hour bench test the quickest, the Japenese or the Spanish? Not completely convinced the bench test is the reason for the hold ups. Edited October 30, 2004 by windlestone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonsurge Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Just to clarify: I don't really subscribe to the "there's more to go wrong" theory either. Like I said, I used to ride 4-stroke enduro bikes and I never experienced a mechanical failure that wasn't a consequence of my own mechanical ineptitude. I'm absolutely convinced that the new generation of 4-stroke trials bikes will be more reliable and require significantly less frequent major spannering that the current crop of 2-strokes. However, when something does go wrong, it's less likely that the average rider will be able to fix it in their own garage using just tie wraps, gaffa tape and chewing gum as is usually possible with a relatively simple 2-stroke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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