Faster clutch...

[spark]

Hi, I must say I love my Gasser to bits but the one thing that took a bit of getting used to is the clutch. Coming from a Sherco the Gasser clutch does not seem to have as much bite and seems to take a longer time to engage. I have gotten used to this but had to ride a Sherco for a bit this past weekend as my mate wanted a ride on my gasser and it suddenly hit me how nice and "sharp" the clutch engagement is on the Sherco.

I know this is due to the unique design of the Gasser clutch but I am finding it takes a bit too long to engage when I want to do splatters. What would be the best way to go about giving me more bite from the clutch? I have read up all the posts on clutch adjustment, belville washer thicknesses etc. Seems like I either have to put in a thicker belville washer or put in a thicker steel plate to make the clutch release arms drop down. Both methods will make the clutch harder to use but I don't even notice the clutch at the moment so not sure if that would be an issue.

I guess I'm wondering if it really makes a noticeable difference to the speed of the clutch by changing the height of the clutch release arms. From what I have read it makes it a lot stiffer, but is the speed of engagement proportional to the increased stiffness of the clutch?

For interest I am running ATF and when I measured my arms height it was pretty much 17.5mm from what I can remember. There is nothing wrong with the bike that needs to be fixed, just me looking for more performance.

Any thoughts?

[fsb]

You have to change the ratio between hand-move and clutch-move. It has nothing to do with the stiffness of the clutch... This you can do with an other ratio from lever length to the length which pushes the piston in. Then you'd need a different lever. An other way would be to change the ratio of the two pistons (piston of the brake main cylinder and piston at the clutch). The main brak cylinder needs a larger piston, so that you push more fluid downwards with the same hand-movement. This would bring you the wanted behaviour. Of course you need more force with this modification, but you said that this would be ok.

bye, Felix

[sting32]

Hi, I must say I love my Gasser to bits but the one thing that took a bit of getting used to is the clutch. Coming from a Sherco the Gasser clutch does not seem to have as much bite and seems to take a longer time to engage. I have gotten used to this but had to ride a Sherco for a bit this past weekend as my mate wanted a ride on my gasser and it suddenly hit me how nice and "sharp" the clutch engagement is on the Sherco.

I know this is due to the unique design of the Gasser clutch but I am finding it takes a bit too long to engage when I want to do splatters. What would be the best way to go about giving me more bite from the clutch? I have read up all the posts on clutch adjustment, belville washer thicknesses etc. Seems like I either have to put in a thicker belville washer or put in a thicker steel plate to make the clutch release arms drop down. Both methods will make the clutch harder to use but I don't even notice the clutch at the moment so not sure if that would be an issue.

I guess I'm wondering if it really makes a noticeable difference to the speed of the clutch by changing the height of the clutch release arms. From what I have read it makes it a lot stiffer, but is the speed of engagement proportional to the increased stiffness of the clutch?

For interest I am running ATF and when I measured my arms height it was pretty much 17.5mm from what I can remember. There is nothing wrong with the bike that needs to be fixed, just me looking for more performance.

Any thoughts?

Just my random thoughts...:

you could get the 02 pro clutch cover design from somewhere, maybe S3? AFAIK/understand it had a smaller slave cylinder {top hat and peg inside case). Smaller slave means piston action would be quicker and longer (and harder) by a small bit. seems like this was how Raga liked it at least back in 04-08 {read it somewhere}. yes take the fingers down below 17mm I think you will see quicker clutching.

Move the levers to where you grip near the fulcrum (bolt), this would move lever in and out quicker per finger action. I see the big dogs ride this way.

Just putting this out there:

I am the opposite of you, since I hardly ever really ride with the clutch all the way out, slipping it most of the time (again I'm not a big splatter person) I have my clutch closer to 19 mm spec, or so at the fingers, and I love that I have an area which I have varying amounts of slip and it makes a big difference on how hard it is to pull the clutch. PLUS, I use a transmission fluid that aids in this slipping range. So my clutch is never an ON OFF switch, it is more like a dimmer switch, if you see what I mean.

What I see a lot of times for people in (below splatter classes in the USA like Expert) is, that the clutch jerks the bike forward because there is no "feel", it is off/on so a tight turn the bike jumps 4 inches straight ahead instead of turning, which my gasser will NOT do (unless I physically mess up) because I slip the clutch to where it moves the bike without a lurch.

Again you probably hop, and do big splatters, so your needs are different than mine. I know the a couple of buddies bikes I test rode, made me nervous because I could't slip it the way I am used to.

[spark]

Thank you both for your replies. It is actually pretty hard getting information on this but this is what I have found so far.

Practically nothing on the 2002 clutch cover system, for some reason I cannot find a parts manual. This system uses DOT4, and found a bulletin that recommends an upgrade to the later clutch cover and parts that run with mineral oil. So even if I could get hold of this cover it would seem it has some issues, so probably best not to go there.

2003 upwards uses the same tophat as all the later model bikes so the ratio between master and slave cylinder would not change if I were to swap to any of the other covers.

I'm not so sure about finding a suitable master cylinder with a bigger bore.

I can probably move my lever perch more out but as it is I grab it as close as I can. My fingers are pretty short and stocky so the lever already squeezes on my middle finger knuckle when I pull the lever in, and it still feels like it takes too far out. No amount of adjustment can change this and I have already bent my lever a bit so I have more clearance for my middle finger.

So far the only viable solution seems to adjust the clutch pack so the fingers are lower, not sure if this is a good idea though. A stiffer belville washer should also get the clutch plates to bite sooner as the oil between the plates will get squashed out faster, by how much I don't know.

I wish I could find out more about the S3 clutch cover but there is next to no information on it. From their advertisement-

Superb S3 GG Pro clutch cover. They

are machined from billet aluminium and

are absolutely beautiful. They are a top

quality component and look stunning.

You can choose to use either 1,2 or 3 orings

for the clutch. Using all 3 will make

the clutch very slow and progressive

whereas only one will make it release like

a switch. So it

[baldilocks]

Thank you both for your replies. It is actually pretty hard getting information on this but this is what I have found so far.

Practically nothing on the 2002 clutch cover system, for some reason I cannot find a parts manual. This system uses DOT4, and found a bulletin that recommends an upgrade to the later clutch cover and parts that run with mineral oil. So even if I could get hold of this cover it would seem it has some issues, so probably best not to go there.

2003 upwards uses the same tophat as all the later model bikes so the ratio between master and slave cylinder would not change if I were to swap to any of the other covers.

I'm not so sure about finding a suitable master cylinder with a bigger bore.

I can probably move my lever perch more out but as it is I grab it as close as I can. My fingers are pretty short and stocky so the lever already squeezes on my middle finger knuckle when I pull the lever in, and it still feels like it takes too far out. No amount of adjustment can change this and I have already bent my lever a bit so I have more clearance for my middle finger.

So far the only viable solution seems to adjust the clutch pack so the fingers are lower, not sure if this is a good idea though. A stiffer belville washer should also get the clutch plates to bite sooner as the oil between the plates will get squashed out faster, by how much I don't know.

I wish I could find out more about the S3 clutch cover but there is next to no information on it. From their advertisement-

Superb S3 GG Pro clutch cover. They

are machined from billet aluminium and

are absolutely beautiful. They are a top

quality component and look stunning.

You can choose to use either 1,2 or 3 orings

for the clutch. Using all 3 will make

the clutch very slow and progressive

whereas only one will make it release like

a switch. So it

[spark]

It is the standard lever that I have modified to give me a bit more travel.

Wouldn't the pivot point of the lever have to change to change the leverage to make it quicker ...?

I have moved the lever further out and will try it this afternoon, but it feels a bit weird holding it so close to the master cylinder.

Hoping Laser1 will come across this post.

[arnoux]

Standard AJP clutch Master cylinder bore size is 9.5mm

the AJP clutch Master cylinder as found on the GG BOY 50 is a 12mm bore.

Edited December 10, 2010 by arnoux

[baldilocks]

It is the standard lever that I have modified to give me a bit more travel.

Wouldn't the pivot point of the lever have to change to change the leverage to make it quicker ...?

I have moved the lever further out and will try it this afternoon, but it feels a bit weird holding it so close to the master cylinder.

Hoping Laser1 will come across this post.

Its difficult to measure but i think its the relationship between the pivot and the adjuster screw thats different. I think this is correct as the clutch action is heavier with the apico lever and the bushes dont appear to change this if swapped over.

[laser1]

I have never tried to make a GG clutch faster, so dont have any tested advice other than going to a 05 or older belville spring. They are about 20% stiffer. I would also try a different brand of ATF. Ive always found the fluid to have a impact on engagement speed. I would try a different MC if that didnt work. As stated above, force yourself to get used to using the inside of the lever to minimize travel distance.

One interesting side point - I have found that the THICKEST plate, needs to go in the basket 1st. There is a recessed lip in the bottom of the clutch basket and the 1st plate has to be above or its effectively not in the stack. Last time I brought this up, many thought I was on drugs. All I know is that it works on my bikes.

[jse]

One interesting side point - I have found that the THICKEST plate, needs to go in the basket 1st. There is a recessed lip in the bottom of the clutch basket and the 1st plate has to be above or its effectively not in the stack. Last time I brought this up, many thought I was on drugs. All I know is that it works on my bikes.

The newer clutches have two equal thickness steel plates, two fiber plates of the same size and a thicker fiber plate that is always to go in first. You may also have been on drugs at the time, but your advice was excellent, as any experienced GasGas tech will tell you.....

Jon

[laser1]

LOL...I was around when at Woodstock the best advice was to - "look out for the purple Acid", Nowadays, more relevant advice is to "look out for the pink tranny fluid"...

[spark]

Thanks to all that replied. I landed up shortening the lever and modified it a little so I could grab it closer to the pivot point, and moved the perch closer to the end of the bars. It took a bit of getting used to but it is definitely an improvement. My finger is getting a proper workout now, but the clutch is much faster.