Sportsman class

[4ourtea]

gazzaecowarrior, I agree with what you have said and the Merthyr policy is a sound one - no argument at all with that and one that I think should be adopted everywhere.

I think the point 2shock was making was that his concern is that people riding the easiest route will ultimately try to get the C of the C to toughen it up for their benefit/liking, and thereby make it too hard for the newbies, sproggers and codgers...

[pete_scorpa3]

Im probably going to annoy everybody here but I think people should just be allowed to ride whatever route they wish. It's up to them. For god sake they are paying to ride so let them have that choice. Who cares if they win or not ? It's not affecting how you ride your own bike is it ? Trials (and sport in general) isn't just about winning or losing. It's about having fun on your bike. So if somebody wants to clean every section to get their sense of achievement well let them do so. At the same time encouragement should be given to somebody who has stepped up a class and is going round with a scorecard of 5's and 3's. It's an old cliche but 'its the taking part that counts'. Our club has a good plicy that if you win your class, the year after you can only compete in the same class on a non award basis. That way, for those people who gain pleasure from polishing trophies who didn't win, they get to have a better chance of winning silverware the next time.

Agree with you! :thumbup:

I often ride my DRZ400 on the C route for a challenge, I've got round for one or two marks lost in the past, but certainly wouldn't be able to ride it onthe B route.

We've also got a rider in his mid 70's who rides the C route and he was a very good centre expert 25 - 30 years ago, he usually gets around for a dab or two but since having his hips replaced doesn't want anything harder.

The important thing is that everyone has a good time on their bikes.

Pete

[hoggyf]

All the points above are valid and justified and now being self em,ployed can understand the more able guys in my position (not that I am very able at all mind!) may want to keep to the easy course to prevent injury, however I do feel on some trials that the easy course is still bloody hard for newbies. Sometimes theres not that much choice, if you don't want to travel miles, to do the genuine newbies trials.

Perhaps if the easy course was kept "easy" then the more able may decide on their own to step up?? just a thought.

[2shock]

Agree with you! :thumbup:

I often ride my DRZ400 on the C route for a challenge, I've got round for one or two marks lost in the past, but certainly wouldn't be able to ride it onthe B route.

We've also got a rider in his mid 70's who rides the C route and he was a very good centre expert 25 - 30 years ago, he usually gets around for a dab or two but since having his hips replaced doesn't want anything harder.

The important thing is that everyone has a good time on their bikes.

Pete

I bet your 70yr old doesn't complain that the C route is too easy, and try and get it changed though does he?

Which is my point!

[2shock]

gazzaecowarrior, I agree with what you have said and the Merthyr policy is a sound one - no argument at all with that and one that I think should be adopted everywhere.

I think the point 2shock was making was that his concern is that people riding the easiest route will ultimately try to get the C of the C to toughen it up for their benefit/liking, and thereby make it too hard for the newbies, sproggers and codgers...

That's dead on 100% what i'm trying to say.

Thank you for reading what i'd said and 'getting it'. i was starting to think it was me not explaining myself very well!

Cheers

[pete_scorpa3]

I bet your 70yr old doesn't complain that the C route is too easy, and try and get it changed though does he?

Which is my point!

No far from it, he always thanks me for putting on the trial and reminds me not to put him inthe championship, he rides as a guest.

I have had riders comment (definitely NOT complain)that the C route is too easy and the B route is too hard! That kind of makes me wonder what else I can do! I already put on four routes (D for conducted youths) and am reluctant to do five.

I know the ESTC do a green route which is between the C and the B, but I'm not sure how popular this is and whether it's worth the effort.

The Midland Centre is running a 50/50 championship in 2011 (I think they've decided to call it the Masters class, but don't quote me on that) so that the Easy route can be genuinely easy. Over the last few years a number of older Experts moved down to the easy route and rode as over 40's and thus the Easy route became harder to cater for these fellas. In this case, the 50/50 idea is a good one and requires little or no extra work for the organisers.

[old trials fanatic]

That's dead on 100% what i'm trying to say.

Thank you for reading what i'd said and 'getting it'. i was starting to think it was me not explaining myself very well!

Cheers

Very very interesting thread and very current, for me anyway too, as i'm the one responsable for setting out the course at our trials and i also ride the Clubman route and usually finish in the top 3. Now i've had my detractors for still riding the Clubman route but at 56 and remembering i was never really any good anyway i find the route just about right for me. Anouther club i ride at, which i have no involvement with, has started making the Clubman route quite a bit harder that earlier this year. Nothing to do with me as i really like the clubman route at their trials and find it a struggle, but enjoyable, to keep my score below 10. I have been pressured to ride the Intermediate route at their trials next year which i will do but if i find i no longer enjoy the ride i will more than likely stop riding at their events. I'm not spitting my dummy honest but i enjoy riding for a clean or a one on a section not to struggle for a three. Just me i suppose. Thing is if i stop competing at their trials who is the looser? In the big scale of things i suppose my entry doesnt really matter one way or the other but just thought i would add my two pennorth.

As for my own club after pressure from riders complaining about the old 50/50 route, they felt the 50% of the route when they rode the clubman sections a waste of time as they were too easy, i am abolishing the 50/50 and introducing an intermediate route. The clubman route will stay on as an easy fun ride. The Intermediate riders will then have a route totally tailored to them and the experts will ride the Intermediate route for 50% of the route and for the other 50% will have a harder option. Now i've done this to answer the complaints from some that the sections were too easy and that riders felt they "didnt have the chance to pull back marks if they had a silly five" and that they were getting beaten by riders who were not as good as they were because the course was too easy. Never did really understand that one because to me they shouldnt have had the silly five or whatever in the first place.

Am i doing what 2shock is complaining about? I intended to try to give everybody a choice of routes that they were happy riding. BTW i've never had anybody complain that the Clubman route was too easy. If i had i would definately have said ride up a route then. Have had complaints from riders who were very good experts a long time ago but i told them they could always ride down a class. Think it's very hard on the ego for some riders to ride down a class so instead they complain about the severity of the route.

As someone once told me if you manage to please 60% then you achieved the near impossible.

Do think people should think twice before moaning after every trial when perhaps they should be a little more realistic about their own abilities and which class they should really be riding in.

Just a point of view.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Old trials fanatic

[gazzaecowarrior]

That's dead on 100% what i'm trying to say.

Thank you for reading what i'd said and 'getting it'. i was starting to think it was me not explaining myself very well!

Cheers

To be fair. Your first question you posed was ''Who is the Sportsman class really aimed at?''. My post was a response to this question. To summarise my thoughts in a brief synopsis 'people should ride whatever class they want to ride'. I had read what you had said and yes i did get it.

[john collins]

Some excellent posts , with a whole lot of sensible and valid points made

For myself

[cabby]

( Clubman)

[atomant]

I think that when someone is a natural competitor then there needs to be some kind of challenge and sense of achievement albeit false in some cases due to them winning classes that they can win easily. At this point, even though they are deluding themselves, there is a sense of superiority. They no doubt brag to their work mates that they 'won' the trial at the weekend or whatever so to move up a class and be at the bottom to then have to work their way up is too much for their ego's to take.

Edited December 31, 2010 by AtomAnt

[pete_scorpa3]

I think that when someone is a natural competitor then there needs to be some kind of challenge and sense of achievement albeit false in some cases due to them winning classes that they can win easily. At this point, even though they are deluding themselves, there is a sense of superiority. They no doubt brag to their work mates that they 'won' the trial at the weekend or whatever so to move up a class and be at the bottom to then have to work their way up is too much for their ego's to take.

I think you are spot on there Ian, but there are others (such as myself) who fit into a different category. I like easy trials and always do well in events that are low scoring, but self preservation (or lack of skill if you like) takes over when I'm faced with anything harder. I'm far to cautious (Ok scared) to move up to the Expert route, so will always be found on the Clubman route.

Thankfully there are better riders than me on the B route, so wins are few and far between, so I don't look too much like a pot hunter, but I can understand why riders who should be capable of moving up stay on the easier route. We are all there to enjoy ourselves and go to work the following day.

Pete

[the addict]

On another group of riders who I fit into. I've competed in a fair few nationals over the years (some on the hard route ) but over the past few years I ride the Clubman class, plenty tough enough and a great day on the bike with my mates.

Last year I started to compete in 50/50 instead of the hard route at club trials and if there was no 50/50 I opted for the clubman route if I knew the hard route was going to involve "a*** twitcher" sections. I've got to the age now where some of the hard route sections scare me, many of these sections require an element of total commitment to get through or up and over, something my brain is struggling to deal with the older I get. I, like all of us enjoy a trial and riding my bike, over the past couple of years I have entered the hard route only to find I've hurt myself or have had to miss some of the sections and not enjoyed the Trial. I have competed in ESTC Clubman route trials this year and have really enjoyed the challenge and found the route although obviously easier still very tricky to keep a low score. I'm no pot hunter(sure Pete will back that up) and there are many many riders like myself who have no choice but to ride the Clubman route as the hard route has become to tough in our eyes. I am though a firm believer in the better riders should have no influence on the Clubmans route severity, if they complain its to easy then they should have either opted for the hard route or chossen a different trial. What I have found when competing on the easier route is how much more you have to concentrate at every section, on the hard route your somtimes just glad to get through for a twenty dab "3".

Edited December 31, 2010 by The Addict

[2shock]

Pesonally i have no problem at all with what seems to be called 'pot hunting'

It wouldn't bother me if the class was full of closet clubmen and experts out for a win.

I wouldn't even notice them, i'd be too selfishly struggling away doing my own thing!

All i don't want them to do is to complain the route is too easy, and push to get it made harder in future to suit themselves.

The reason i asked the original ''who is the Sportsman class for'' was because i'd seen it tried, but have been reassured by the various C of C etc who have posted on here that they are aware of this sort of thing, and wouldn't let it happen.

Thanks

[old trials fanatic]

I think you are spot on there Ian, but there are others (such as myself) who fit into a different category. I like easy trials and always do well in events that are low scoring, but self preservation (or lack of skill if you like) takes over when I'm faced with anything harder. I'm far to cautious (Ok scared) to move up to the Expert route, so will always be found on the Clubman route.

Thankfully there are better riders than me on the B route, so wins are few and far between, so I don't look too much like a pot hunter, but I can understand why riders who should be capable of moving up stay on the easier route. We are all there to enjoy ourselves and go to work the following day.

Pete

That sums me up too. Always do disproportionately better at "easy" events.