sam Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Could it be true? I just returned from a Trade show a couple of weeks ago , were I spoke to a manager of a company who makes cheap scooters and bicycles. This company is already producing bicycles for trials that retail for around 300.00 in the US. Im sure many of you have seen the youngsters zooming around the pits on these 20'' bicycles and now 26'' wheeled models are being sold. So, I asked if there was a motorcycle trials bike in R&D and he said they would have pictures by July of this year. The bike is suppose to have large wheels, but the motor will only be a 110 4-stroke, air cooled design. I actually seen a off road looking bike with a 200cc motor in another display, that resembled a Honda air cooled motor. The suspension really sucked but for the price I was amazed of the appearence of this bike! Now, I know everyone is going to be laughing at this whole post! But, the one thing that I wittnessed that is not a joke, Are the mini pit bikes, the 50cc and a 110cc Honda knock offs, CRF'S. These bikes come with the adult riser bars, tall seat and extra stiff shocks, front and rear disk brakes. I asked about parts replacement on all these machines and they said no problem for even the most internal needed parts. The mini pit racers are very popular in are area, with lots of back yard racing. I'm going to order one of the 110's CRF look alikes and test it out, I'm very courious to see how this mini bike runs. Could China compete against Japan in the motorcycle industry here in the USA? sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuessenhigh Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Yep...dont think it will be long till China is making a trials bike. Those little pit bikes are fun eh!..and lots of those little kiddies MX bikes are made in China. I've been to a couple of trade shows in South China...and you might be a bit miffed if you know how much a dealer can buy them for MInd you..after shipping etc tax etc...I guess its fair enough......thats going on prices I saw last time I was in UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marky g Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Sure I read that China already sells more bikes than the Japs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boofont Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 To make any dent on the Jap domination then they'll have to get the build quality sorted. Mate of mine has a china built monkey bike and it's unbelievable how bad the quality is. It rusts and falls apart as you look at it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marky g Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 To make any dent on the Jap domination then they'll have to get the build quality sorted. Mate of mine has a china built monkey bike and it's unbelievable how bad the quality is. It rusts and falls apart as you look at it! GAS GAS is it then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I also play with Tractors, and this discussion is constant. What I tell people about, is go back and watch the movie "on Any Sunday" where they are talking about those poor upstart bikes from Yaaa Maaaa Haaaa. (I cannot get the tone, but you should get the idea) and how they doubt those bikes will ever really compete with the British bikes. Mind you this is not a direct quote, more a sense that the Japanese stuff was Junk and not able to compete. I think you will see much of the same progression in the Chinese made equipment. And some of the Chinese stuff is really pretty nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsmm Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 (edited) In the US, at Pep Boys Auto parts and others, 'knock off' dirt bikes and mini-pit bikes, choppers, etc. are priced very cheap compared to top of the line dirt bikes and 4-wheelers. The dirt bike look like honda air cooled motors and the rest of the bike looks like its from the '80s. A cheap China trials bike might be on the way? A $1500.00 price might sell well? Edited March 17, 2005 by trialsmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam Posted March 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Alan, Whats the word on all those China tractors saturating the gas station corners down FL. I swear every small town down there had a bright red two wheeled drive diseal on the corner for sale, for like 3990.00! Are there any reports on these machines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuessenhigh Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 totally agree boofont..but it wont be TOO long till the quality starts to improve also. These workers here are "mad for it" and work their a**es off! I guess it will be a while though. Thought you'd get more of a backlash for that comment Marky G!! ......theres still time..hee-hee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/postlis...t/0/Board/china You get what you pay for, but they operate without a lot of the rules and regulations that many other countries impose on their industries. For some reason they fascinate me. I can buy a diesel, 25Hp 4 wd power steering tractor for less money then we spend on our mowers....... Of course, an American Made Koyker Loader is almost half the price of the entire tractor..... There are also a number of "dealers" out there going through and doing a thorough setup on them prior to delivery, and then providing service after the sale,,,, Kind of reminds me of Trials bikes. But when we bought, I chose to spend 12K on a 2000 New Holland with Hydro and all the bells and whistles with about 1000 hrs, rather then spend about 10K on the Jinma. I can pretty much get any part for my NH in 24 to 48 hrs, when I spoke to some of the Jinma owners they told me about waiting 2 months to get their tractor back etc. When I spend that kind of money on a machine to make money with, I cannot afford for it to be broken that long. Back to the Trials end though, I would doubt there is enough market for them to produce a Trials bike. I see them saturating the entry level play bike, 4 wheeler, and hunting / recreational 4 wheeler market. The numbers are just so much bigger, and it really takes the same amount of effort to produce either. I think they will really start hitting their stride when they realize they should not badge the darn things with so many different names, and develop a good parts and service department to support them.... And with the world of the internet, it is soooooo much easier than when the Japanese were trying to develop thiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuessenhigh Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 All good points ALan.. and a reminder to all those out there that feel they're hard done by...most of the factory workers in China, are on about 1 USDollar per day..(thats the word on the street here at least) AND they probably have to work all hours of the day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramer Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 A $1500.00 price might sell well? If the bikes are good then ok......but $1500.00 is a lot of money to pay for junk. "Cheap things can turn out to be expensive" Wisdom courtesy of Kramer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 I would and have considered owning a 70's/80's Honda, but I would have absolutely no interest in a new Chinese bike that was modelled on a TLR. The interest in the Honda for me would be the nostalgia, the resell value and the quality, probably in that order. At least two of these you wouldn't have with the Chinese bike and very possibly three. I may be wrong, but unless they come in with a bike to match the modern machines, I don't think there'll be much interest at all, and even then they'd have to convince people of the longevity. They seem to just miss out on the styling as well. Are those "Champ" trail bikes Chinese? They're cheap and cheerful, and for a larger market, but they seem to fall to bits, and nothing too cool looking about them. Apologies if you've got one, but they're a bit like the MZ used to be for me - practical, very practical. One good thing about them: You're just as happy in the morning when it won't start as when it will, because getting the bus is just as cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-shock 250 Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Chinese Honda engine copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin j Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 They're cheap and cheerful, and for a larger market, but they seem to fall to bits, and nothing too cool looking about them. Apologies if you've got one, but they're a bit like the MZ used to be for me - practical, very practical. exactly the reason for the markets their products go into. Like the japanese in the 50's after the war, the chinese planners/leaders wisely know what technology and goods need to be developed long term. Picking a product that has high volumes reduces costs, allows for investment, and produces good s for their massive market. Then, as the knowledge developes, the products get more advanced and better made. diesle engines drivetrains, hydraulic components, electronics, optics, etc. etc. to where they are now. Look at the china tools: Granted, not much quality yet, but we can buy an entire set of sockets for $5 shipped here and including dealer profit. The products are made and subsidized there to develope forging, plating, machining, etc. etc. etc. To do that takes massive volume, more than the local market needs. Chinese gov't figures it's better to subsidize companies and exports than put money into social welfare. And to there credit, it is amazing to see a culture move several technology levels in only about 25 years. Much as I value freedom, I do see the functional advantages of planned centralized regimes. There isn't much debate and the long range vision stays consistent. Producers are not restrained by details such as working conditions, safety, medical care, human rights, pollution regulations, copyright or patent infringement, (e.g. the copy of the Honda 90 engine they have been building for decades) liability, etc. I have no objections to buying, free trade, and developing nations. Trade is how they move their standard of living upward. What bothers me is when the rules are not the same for all players. Those of us (especially in the US) who want all the decent conditions in our own jobs and lives, but also want products (from vcr to tennis shoes) produced at the absolute lowest price are often getting those products at the expense of other people in developing countries. The person building that product has few of the basic human necessities that our laws provide. yes, I know, one theory is with trade comes influence, but is that not often just a justification for wanting cheap goods? anyway, end of rant. I have had my caffeine limit for the day. kcj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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