wri5hty Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 As long as it is not a imaginary boundary. I'm assuming that is the same north & south of the border? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 As long as it is not a imaginary boundary. I'm assuming that is the same north & south of the border? I thought you had "quite" an imagination ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wri5hty Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I have, but I couldn't imagine trying what your picture shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 I've always hated this "imaginary boundary" term. I've even heard that "it's a straight line between markers. I dont like miles of tape either but at least you know where the "line" is that you must not cross otherwise it's that old observers interpretation thing that always seems to fluctuate depending on who is riding the section. Dont get me wrong i'm not having a go at observers, without which the trial just doesnt seem right somehow, just dont think it should be open to interpretation and should be clear to all where the line is. As for dabing outside of a section unless they remove or displace a marker with their foot i've always thought it was ok. Again though as previously said numerous times a lot of this is down to how the section is laid out by the C o C, again NOT having a go at them either, because some smart ar5e will always "find" a line you never thought of when you laid it out believe me been there got the t shirt etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoot Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Now I thought displacing a marker with an extended foot was ok. Isnt it just the machine that counts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 God knows! Seems many are going to this thing of even toutching one is a Five! What B*****ks! Guess they need an excuse to take marks on the riders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 At least we have a bit of interest going on;.. Last summer one of my riders (Jerome Bethune) whilst leading a trial on day 3 by 19 marks was given 20 marks for breaking a tape.......whilst jumping out of the way of a rider coming through the section....the club added 4 extra sections on paper and everybody else got cleans.. Jerome was beaten after 4 days by that one point. This cost him 500 euros in bonuses yet he still had to go on the podium and make with the smile and speech. I also know that Jerome earlier in his careerwasn't backwards in offering his opinion regaeding the standard of some observing. The lesson I took from this as a competitor is always to be polite and if in doubt ask (which he effectivly had done.. there was ironicaly a language problem with the english observer). It is the interpretation of not only the rules but also of what transpired by the official(s) that defines what happened. As an observer;I have had "run ins" with top riders wearing yellow plate etc. I try to be fair and consistent. As a C.O.C.; I have been presented with disputes between top riders and observers. If I know (and I make a point of doing so) that the observers are fair and consistent. I will support their decisions as would any COC. Generally what the riders ( and I.ve been there!) fail to appreciate is the vast differnce in the perspective of either side of such disputes and think they have been singled out for "special treatment". My comment earlier in this forum regarding onlookers is that through the day onlookers come and go ,sometimes coincidentally with their son/ cousin/ brother /mate/preffered top rider who is riding and quite a few who only see that little bit of the action at any given section..then feel moved to offer advice to the incumbrent observer which is often at complete odds with the advice of the guy who came and went a couple of hours earlier and the guy who is coming along in a few hours time. I have to say that all such comments and advise are nearly always presented in the nicest ,friendliest manner possible with the best of intentions. Fortunatly for all of us we are different and make different judgements; imagine if we had sensors on the bikes and our boots etc. to make the decisions... very few grey areas to discuss then. Regards the touching of flags whils riding/walking the section; we have covered it before I think it was introduced by FIM for WTC (probably to clarify a grey area)and promptly interpreted solely as away to take marks by some. Regards dabbing outside of a section ;..I will have to be honest and plead guilty to the charge AND in excess of 10,000 other similar offences.I trust that that all those good people who have provided sport for me over the years will now recalculate all those results so that I may return some of those plastic trophies which are going brittle nearly as fast as I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 At the risk of getting flammed why dont observers have to go on a course and be licensed the same as a C o C then we could ensure they all sing from the same sheet? OK that is in an ideal world where we all have a deluge of applicants to observe at every event which we all know aint gonna ever happen but it's the only way that i can see of ever alieviating this problem. Till that glorious day we take what we can get and make the most of it. It's a thankless job anyway but observers i love you one and all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosey Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Hard to ask too much from volunteers isn't it? Stand here for 4 hrs or so.. freeze yer nads off and erm... there may be a coffee in it! There are/were a few (only a few) that want(ed) to be god of their little section and you find that these types are so arrogant that they 'know the rules', but they don't know the rules! If we want to take it all seriously then lets have paid officials?... aye... hmmm? Thats when we have to just put up with the best efforts from a lot of willing helpers As for the bystander telling the observer.. they then need to stand there all day (assuming they know what they are on about). I've witnessed other riders in Brit Champs saying 'Oh he's caught that flag! Shall I stand it up again?' this is to sway the observer and really the observer needs to be seasoned/hardy not to be swayed! Still, I can't believe that touching a marker/flag is a 5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I've witnessed other riders in Brit Champs saying 'Oh he's caught that flag! Shall I stand it up again?' this is to sway the observer and really the observer needs to be seasoned/hardy not to be swayed! Still, I can't believe that touching a marker/flag is a 5! I was always given to believe that it's only a 5 if the flag needs reseting as it's been disturbed, i'm beginning to know how the flag must feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Now I thought displacing a marker with an extended foot was ok. Isnt it just the machine that counts? Nope, if the "rider is held liable" for displacing a marker - 5. Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I was always given to believe that it's only a 5 if the flag needs reseting as it's been disturbed, i'm beginning to know how the flag must feel. OTF, Scottish Six Days - touch or ride over a marker, even although it is not displaced - 5. Its been covered in their regs for quite some years. Just a thought! Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 OTF, Scottish Six Days - touch or ride over a marker, even although it is not displaced - 5. Its been covered in their regs for quite some years. Just a thought! Big John Thanks BJ for the clarification. As far as i know ACU view is if the marker has to be reset. Obviously riding over it is a 5 but touching it without moving the flag, marker or tape which often bows in the breeze wouldnt generally incur a 5. Either way it can only be a good thing that riders and observers are made aware of any rules specific to the 6 days. Question does this also apply to the 2 day pre65 event? Reminds me of a recent incident when a rider was bemoaning an observers decision to give him a 3 when he thought he was clean as "my front spindle was out". I did point out to him that it was an AMCA event and AMCA rules are front spindle in rear spindle out. He was not aware of the different rule even though he had been riding ACU and AMCA events for some while. Saying that i do know of some observers who mark ACU even though they are at AMCA events so it does happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoot Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Nope, if the "rider is held liable" for displacing a marker - 5. Big John Cheers John, I do continue to learn something every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosey Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I once got a 5 for knocking a flag out in the lower part of a section with a rock that I dislodged from further up the section! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.