greeves Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Today the new rules for 2013 have been published in the RFME web page. A small "revolution". Handicaps, and more strict ruels for the classic trials, although modified bikes are admitted, they will have the highest handicap of 1,3. New rules as the sliders must have the original stands for the mudguards, modern stands will take the bike to a handicap of 1,3; and much much more. Have a look here: https://fedemoto.info/ImgFCK/file/2013/TRIAL%20CLASICAS/Reglamento/Reglamento%20RFMETRClasicas2013(1).pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 wow thanks greeves. Does appear to be quite strict. I'm going to do a machine translation into english and have a read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 I couldn't understand the rule about eligibility of exhausts (or the need for a rule) so I think I am missing something in the translation. Same for the section on brakes - increased leverage on the brake camshaft maybe?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 I have never understood why it is acceptable to have sherco or gas gas forks on a twinshock, sounds sensible to me if thats the correct translation? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 I have never understood why it is acceptable to have sherco or gas gas forks on a twinshock, sounds sensible to me if thats the correct translation? Generally, they don't use them in Spain, there are one or two but in the main they use the originals - what the regs now prevent is using the late 90s Gas Gas style mudguard clamps and bridges, as seen on the Puma bikes. There are so many bikes fitted with these you have to wonder how many bikes will be in anything other than the Open class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 I couldn't understand the rule about eligibility of exhausts (or the need for a rule) so I think I am missing something in the translation. Same for the section on brakes - increased leverage on the brake camshaft maybe?? The way I read the exhaust rule is that you can have an aftermarket part like a WES etc. But you can't fit an original manufacture exhaust from a late model to an earlier model - so you couldn't fit a clubfoot rear silencer from a Sherpa M159 to a Sherpa M80 or M91/92 ? Same with airboxes. If you fit a 199b airbox to the earlier 199 or 199a models the bike is automatically moved up a class. Sometimes, things like this are done for practical reasons, not performance, as the B airbox is a more practical design and makes the filter easier to service. I've had a new airbox made for my Armstrong for the same reason. To remove the airfilter or airbox from an Armstrong Hiro is really awkward and time consuming. The one I've had made lifts straight out of the top of the frame, no need to remove the rear wheel and one shock absorber. No performance gain but this modification would put it into the Open class. Javier - what do the riders think about these new rules - from what I have seen of the bikes in Spain, most have been modified in some way or another which would put them in the Open class. I always thought the modifications to the bikes in Spain were sensible as generally the bikes still looked like the originals apart from all the bright paint, chrome and polish. The number of bikes using more modern components seemed very few - apart from the mudguard brackets and tubeless wheels. I don't undertand why there is a problem with tubeless rims / tyres = in any organisation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeves Posted December 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) I couldn't understand the rule about eligibility of exhausts (or the need for a rule) so I think I am missing something in the translation. Same for the section on brakes - increased leverage on the brake camshaft maybe?? You can use exhausts as Wes specially build for a particular model. The use of an exhaust that is original from a bike that is more modern than the bike will determine the handicap. For example a James with a Wes silencer is still a pre67 bike so 0,7 handicap. A Bultaco Model 80 with a 199 series final exhaust will send the bike to 1,15 handicap instead of 0,85 as the later bike using that silencer is the 1981 199B model. In the pre67 bikes hand made exhausts are accepted for the 0,7 handicap. In the rest of the models hand made exhaust will send you to 1,3 handicap. Same for the brakes. Original hubs and levers, the use of levers from a more modern model will determine the handicap. Edited December 24, 2012 by greeves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeves Posted December 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) Hi Dave: For the airboxes is exactly the same. For example the use if a 199 model air box in a 92 model will change the handicap of the bike from 0,85 to 1. But not the use of a older airbox for example the traditional use in Bultacos of 159 or 190 medel airbox in a later model. Pre67 bikes can have hand made air boxes and continue with the 0,7 handicap; but as sayed; later boxes will send you to a later handicap. For the sliders it is simple; for example Bultaco sliders that have been mechanized and have a modern Gas Gas or Beta bridge will send the whole bike to Open and 1,3 handicap. I bet the original Bultaco sliders will rise their price in the Ebay... For the rims I heard it is all about outside appearance of the bike and also about the precision in the pressure of the tubeless rims. Whit tubeless you can have a more accurrate measurement and also a lower pression inside. Edited December 24, 2012 by greeves 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 "Same for the brakes. Original hubs and levers, the use of levers from a more modern model will determine the handicap. " I assume that replica hubs are ok in per 65 for the same reasons as exhaust ? Although Whitton hubs have 36 spokes and fewer sprocket mounting bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeves Posted December 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 "Same for the brakes. Original hubs and levers, the use of levers from a more modern model will determine the handicap. " I assume that replica hubs are ok in per 65 for the same reasons as exhaust ? Although Whitton hubs have 36 spokes and fewer sprocket mounting bolts. I really don´t know. They don´t speak about the number of spokes; but it´s funny to see how they will know that a replica frame has been built in 2013 and not in 1963, as replica frames will send you straight to the Open category and 1,3 handicap. I presume they will work it out a bit more and ammend those parts that are not clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 it seems that the rules are very strict visually but internal modifications electronic ignition, is that ok? nicasil barrels modern pistons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeves Posted December 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 it seems that the rules are very strict visually but internal modifications electronic ignition, is that ok? nicasil barrels modern pistons? Yes all admited. To be honest it´s tough to say how much an engine is tuned inside if the outside is completely original, and would be impossible to check the internals modifications. About the ignitions they say (and I share that opinion) that classic trials is all about fun and sport, so a electronic ignition and other internal parts give you the reliability of using a bike to enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 All sounds pretty sensible stuff to me. Something needs to be done overhere too before Twinshocks go the same way as Pre65. Is there still time to bolt the stable door ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Hi Javier How are the Spanish riders accepting the new rules ? Hopefully it will encourage some previously un-competative bikes back out with the handicap system leveling the playing field. Paul - How do you stand on introducing a similar system ? As always, it policing it that's the hard bit. Merry Crimbo to you all. Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 Hi Javier How are the Spanish riders accepting the new rules ? Hopefully it will encourage some previously un-competative bikes back out with the handicap system leveling the playing field. Paul - How do you stand on introducing a similar system ? As always, it policing it that's the hard bit. Merry Crimbo to you all. Ross Hi Ross sorry i've been a bit busy over crimbo. As you say it's all down to policing it. When i rode i Spain i know they do have scrutineering and seen to know their stuff so might work. Over here scrutineering very rarely happens and when it does it's more road legal orientated. The policing part is sort of left to the riders as in a set of rules is published and if someone rides a bike that blatently breaks those rules someone can protest then the CoC takes it further. Not perfect i know but what else can you do as it's nigh on impossible to get observers let alone a knowledgeable scrutineer. However i still think it's well worth having rules like those Spanish ones as it will hopefully put the brakes on those who would just go crazy and ruin Twinshocks like some have done already to P65. IMHO of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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