2stroke4stroke Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 Surely this has to be a prime candidate for Big Dave's get rid of red tape campaign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andat Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 More e-mails have landed today whilst I've been at work. Apparently this was all debated at length back in '69 and the ACU back then supported the proposition that "it doesn't apply to road trials because there is no competition "on" the public highway" Doesn't help you now Scorpa3 but I would be tempted to tell the MSA to whistle for any more info and say the event doesn't actually need their authorisation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 More e-mails have landed today whilst I've been at work. Apparently this was all debated at length back in '69 and the ACU back then supported the proposition that "it doesn't apply to road trials because there is no competition "on" the public highway" Doesn't help you now Scorpa3 but I would be tempted to tell the MSA to whistle for any more info and say the event doesn't actually need their authorisation. If that is the case, the question is: Why has the ACU started encouraging clubs to apply for MSA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 ***something*** happened that rocked the boat and somehow the MSA found out about the scale of events that should be subject to their "approval" / "oversight". I have heard speculation / a plausible theory about what event may have caused this (but its conjecture). as best as i can tell, we should have done more back in 1969, but we didn't - we are now lumbered with this and the ACU don't want to rock the boat for fear of either bring a tonne of bricks down upon us and/or there is some new legislation that both the ACU and MSA want to go through to allow road racing on public roads (like Ireland and IOM). one would have thought that if every event that used road work did so legally the MSA would be faced with a crisis of being snowed under with their own paperwork.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) one would have thought that if every event that used road work did so legally the MSA would be faced with a crisis of being snowed under with their own paperwork.... I spoken to a RLO today and that is just what he said has happened. Concerning 'why now?' One theory is that income has dropped for the MSA due to so many car events being cancelled due to the weather in 2012, to boost income, they started looking to minority events. Never the less, it does appear that we should have been seeking approval all these years to meet the requirement of the law, so for now we must take that 'as-read.' I just hope that the procedure that I have followed is acceptable and that we are granted approval to run and a permit is issued by the ACU. Talk of not applying for MSA is surely futile, without approval we wouldn't be issued a permit and the trial would be cancelled? Edited January 24, 2013 by pete_scorpa3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Talk of not applying for MSA is surely futile, without approval we wouldn't be issued a permit and the trial would be cancelled? Or is that the real intention ?We see so many instances of government by back door stealth nowadays that perhaps this is how they plan to start getting rid of those nasty, noisey, smelly motor bikes ruining "their" countryside ? How many will be put off organising one now? Nails in coffin ? Makes you wonder? Edited January 25, 2013 by old trials fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 The Police have now responded to our application and have asked us the apply to the Council for a Temporaory Event Notice....... another pile of paperwork and a fee of £21. http://www.stratford.gov.uk/business/temporary-event-notices.cfm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Once you start the money pit genie is let loose. Seriously good luck not trying to be over pessimistic but my gut feeling is they will try to make it soooooooo difficult that people will give up. Also now they know a plod presence is guaranteed. I feel for you and am glad now we turned down the opportunity for a road trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 i pretty sure you don't need a licence from the local council, as motorsport isn't on the list of things that need a licence (such as live music, selling alcohol, boxing, etc) - ie you can have 100,000 at brands hatch for WSB but you a licence for 10 people and a guitar in the pub. otherwise every motorsport event would need a licence (and we would all know about it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 The Police have now responded to our application and have asked us the apply to the Council for a Temporaory Event Notice....... another pile of paperwork and a fee of £21. http://www.stratford...ent-notices.cfm Pete, are you sure you're not over doing this? There is nothing in a motorcycle trial that is licenceable which is what I understand a temporary authorisation is required for - licenceable events for which the organisers don't hold a required licence If you need one for a road trial you'd need one for any closed circuit trial too, the type of trial would be irrelevant, surely. If you had a beer tent organised I can understand you having to apply as selling alcohol requires a licence There are two road based Normandale events next weekend which obviously have permits issued, why not give a call to the secretaries to see how they achieved it. Unfortunately these days, just because you have an answer from the police on something, it doesn't mean it is correct and they may have misunderstood what the event actually is. Ask five different officers what a bike needs to pass an MOT and you'll get five different answers... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Pete, are you sure you're not over doing this? There is nothing in a motorcycle trial that is licenceable which is what I understand a temporary authorisation is required for - licenceable events for which the organisers don't hold a required licence If you need one for a road trial you'd need one for any closed circuit trial too, the type of trial would be irrelevant, surely. If you had a beer tent organised I can understand you having to apply as selling alcohol requires a licence There are two road based Normandale events next weekend which obviously have permits issued, why not give a call to the secretaries to see how they achieved it. Unfortunately these days, just because you have an answer from the police on something, it doesn't mean it is correct and they may have misunderstood what the event actually is. Ask five different officers what a bike needs to pass an MOT and you'll get five different answers... probably in 5 different languages ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andat Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...Now the police are sticking their nose in. All my sympathies Scorpa 3, but you do not need MSA approval if you can run an event under the exclusion guidlines. That has been the whole purpose of my contribution to this debate. We (including the ACU) have to modify the way we run events so that they can fit within the exclusion guidelines. This will inevitably mean compromising on things we used to do (time limits, riders setting off in a pre-determined order and riding sections in a pre-determined order). But it can be done.... Edited January 25, 2013 by andat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted January 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Pete, are you sure you're not over doing this? Unfortunately these days, just because you have an answer from the police on something, it doesn't mean it is correct and they may have misunderstood what the event actually is. Ask five different officers what a bike needs to pass an MOT and you'll get five different answers... I may well be overdoing this, but until I am informed otherwise I will comply with every requirement and stipulation to the best of my ability. I don't know if other clubs have done things differently, but if the Police ask for a TEN then that is what I will get... if I can. I will not be putting my name to something that has not been done! Both MSA RLO's have now confirmed that they are happy with our arrangements, Warwickshire Police require a TEN, it just leaves Gloucetershire Police to get back to me now. They may well present different stipulations. It will be interestting to see what they say.... if anything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Just had the ACU newsletter e mailed, they still send it to me even though we are now AMCA, and looks like the ACU have finally no doubt due to "pressure" decided to look into this. Only took them 43 years but what do you expect? even took a pop at the AMCA stance of "let sleeping dogs lie" which is a bit rich after 43 years. Question would it really be the end of the world if everybody drove to a group of sections then put the bike back in the van or trailer and drove to the next set etc? as andat says perhaps we just have to adopt different practices to preserve the sport we love? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Question would it really be the end of the world if everybody drove to a group of sections then put the bike back in the van or trailer and drove to the next set etc? Ignoring the problems of parking 50 to 60 vans at each section, it still wouldn't help as we would still need MSA approval to drive those vans in the trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.