sawtooth Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) http://youtu.be/9O93JWXvBB0 Took the bike out today and it started making rattly noises, sounds to me like the piston but when I started looking ive noticed the clutch cover is cracked around the starter shaft. So two questions: 1. Should the shaft move like this, if not what do I need to fix it? 2. Could that have been the noise I heard that I thought was the piston? Edited September 19, 2013 by sawtooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada280i Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 nothing at that link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtooth Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Try now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalley250 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Looks okay to me as the case holds it when on. Ive stripped a few Pro engines n taken paw out n replaced it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtooth Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Not sure what you mean? Since posting this ive got the engine out so whats the quickest and easiest way of finding out what the rattling noise was? Is there an easy way of checking things like the piston and crank etc? Also if the starter shaft play is OK how come the case cracked? Hoping to have it fixed by tomorrow night so help really appreciated! If I'd lost a bit of oil due to the cracked cover, what damage would that have done to the engine, anything that would be likely to cause a rattle? I'm leaning towards the starter shaft idler gear (is it?) from reading online, apparently it can cause a noise that sounds like an engine rattle, how do I inspect this and change it? Edited September 19, 2013 by sawtooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtooth Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/693585-gas-gas-pro-kick-starter-gear-problem/ Looks okay to me as the case holds it when on. Ive stripped a few Pro engines n taken paw out n replaced it. This what you mean? How do I go about checking that out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtooth Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) I think it might be the pawl gear as I have had the kick starter jam up a few times, I take it thats clutch basket out and I should be able to see from there? Edited September 19, 2013 by sawtooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada280i Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 when the bike is running and in neutral does the noise disappear when you pull the clutch lever in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtooth Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) when the bike is running and in neutral does the noise disappear when you pull the clutch lever in? No not really. Its not the usual clutch rattle. Edited September 19, 2013 by sawtooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting32 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) idler gears get rough. if a "part" like a tooth gets stuck to clutch basket teeth, then it can bend the clutchbasket slightly, so check all gears from crank to idler for big nick or gouges. the PRO bikes, early on have too much leverage on the case, I know one guy bought 2 cases on a bike, they both broke. I have had 6 bikes from the 04's up to- 2013 Raga. Never broke the case. My sense/opinion is kicking it the incorrect way? also was that the "non aluminium case" it is weaker, so alum case will be better and weldable if it comes to that. since the 08-to my 12, they all have that non aluminium case (cant think of the word/type). Lastly I have NOT tried to move my shaft like you have, there is a BEARING that the shaft goes into, mine (changed the kicker gear and idler a few different bikes) seemed to be somewhat tight, when in place like is supposed to be, make sure you have a "shim" and all shims, for that matter in place, while looking at parts breakdowns from gasgas? Edited September 19, 2013 by sting32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtooth Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 idler gears get rough. if a "part" like a tooth gets stuck to clutch basket teeth, then it can bend the clutchbasket slightly, so check all gears from crank to idler for big nick or gouges. the PRO bikes, early on have too much leverage on the case, I know one guy bought 2 cases on a bike, they both broke. I have had 6 bikes from the 04's up to- 2013 Raga. Never broke the case. My sense/opinion is kicking it the incorrect way? also was that the "non aluminium case" it is weaker, so alum case will be better and weldable if it comes to that. since the 08-to my 12, they all have that non aluminium case (cant think of the word/type). Lastly I have NOT tried to move my shaft like you have, there is a BEARING that the shaft goes into, mine (changed the kicker gear and idler a few different bikes) seemed to be somewhat tight, when in place like is supposed to be, make sure you have a "shim" and all shims, for that matter in place, while looking at parts breakdowns from gasgas? Ok thanks. Will have a look in the morning then and see where I'm at. Will post back on here what I find. Is there anything or any specific way to do any of it that might not seem obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 I`ve seen more `04`s crack the cases than other years. That is too much play in the shaft. The shaft should be fairly tight before closing with cover. It can be very hard to get the kick start shaft into place. There is a blind bearing that could need replacing on the other end. A good chance you will need a whole new shaft as this has been updated several times. Take your time and get it right or it can happen again. Also if you have a riding buddy familiar with this it is worthwhile to get some help. A good friend broke his just as he started a national a few years back. Luckily I had a later start time and the importer had the parts available. 45 minutes later we had new case, gears and shaft replaced. We both finished with plenty of time. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 they all have that non aluminium case (cant think of the word/type). Magnesium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtooth Posted September 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Just about to go pull the clutch basket so will post back what I find, wish me luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtooth Posted September 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) Idle gear was shafted, pawl gear, kickstarter shaft and the bearing the shaft seats into looked fine, so after a trip to my loacal (and really well stocked) trials shop BVM this morning and an expensive shopping list the bikes back together (wish I hadn't of taken the engine out yesterday though!). Parts needed: 2011 Clutch Cover Clutch Cover Gasket Kick Start Oil Seal Water Pump O-Ring Water Pump Seal (Didn't actually need that) Kick Start Idle Gear 2x Clutch O-Rings Sight Glass Total £185 Idle gear damage... I do have two concerns though: 1. There was no trace of any pieces of idle gear anywhere in the clutch cover or clutch basket side of the engine. The teeth do look very rounded and worn though rather than sheared and snapped so I figure i'm unlikely to have found any chunks anyway. 2. The kickstarter still dosen't feel right to me, didn't feel right when I first got the bike a few months ago and i've probably been kicking it wrong to compensate which is probably why the gear went and cracked the case. The kickstarter dosen't feel like its engaging the engine until the kickstart lever is at about the 9 o'clock position, and this dosen't leave enough travel to actually start the engine. This means ive been having to almost start kicking the lever BEFORE my foot is on it! Which I know is a big no no as it can stress the case and idle gear. Obviously If I stall it mid section I can't stop and start rocking the bike about etc, I need to be able to just kick it again and carry on so really want to get to the bottom of this? Edited September 20, 2013 by sawtooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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