totty79 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Hi, The bike is a 1999 321. If it has ran within the last 24 hours it typically starts 1st or 2nd kick, if it's left a week it's really difficult to start - anything from 20+ kicks to giving in after 30 mins and trying again the next day. On the two occasions when I have given in and tried the next day it then started with just a handful of kicks. The lying it on the floor trick that I've read elsewhere doesn't appear to help. I'm not aware of any running problems or noises once it's started, I'm inexperienced with trails and 2 strokes in general but to me it appears to run very nicely. Once it has ran for a few seconds it can be shut off and restarted easily, typically with just one kick. I've serviced it recently - cleaned air filter, replaced oil, coolant, brake fluid, clutch fluid and spark plug - This made no difference. I have no history on the bike. As I'm clueless with 2 stroke troubleshooting I'd like some guidance on the possible causes before I start taking anything apart. Thanks Allan Edited January 25, 2014 by totty79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lestergg2005 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Allan, Hello again ! Could this maybe a starting technique ! If it runs ok I'm not sure there's anything really wrong. Give me a shout and I'll pop over if you like ! Anytime ! L. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Do you give the carb time to fill before you try and start it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toetoe Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 i had trouble starting my 1999 sherco 250 at first and then someone on this forum suggested i put the choke on full and then put it in 5th gear with the clutch in and roll it forward until there is no resistance and then put it back in neutral and then give it a kick, it works every time, i never go past the second kick and because i am waiting for my driving licence to come through i can't take the bike out yet so i like to start it once a week, try it out, it seem like it's just technique and not a mechanical problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonboy883 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Another technique to try, although toetoe's does work, is turn on fuel, choke on, two big handfuls of throttle, roll kickstart over to find TDC and then one kick with the throttle closed, only opening when the engine takes. I had a 321, good bike, and did use this starting technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htrdoug Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Try draining the float bowl by loosening the bolt on the bottom of the float bowl then allowing a minute for it to refill. Choke on.Then shift the bike up into 4th gear. pull the clutch lever in and rock the bike back and forth until the clutch breaks free.If it frees immediately then release the clutch and rock it again until you've had at least 5 repetitions.Don't go more than 10 times.Shift back to neutral and kick away. Fuel looses it's volatiles quickly these days. Draining the float bowl and refilling helps tremendously with starting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totty79 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) I had assumed that it wasn't a technique issue since I can start it so easily when it hasn't been standing, so I was expecting a mechanical problem - I'll be very happy to be proved wrong as I think I'm now on top of the other mechanical issues. I'll leave it until the weekend to try the suggested techniques as I attempted to start it this morning. The float bowl draining I understand but what is the purpose of the various rolling/rocking techniques? I'm just thinking that if I understand the aim I'm more likely to get the technique right, I do take it to TDC on the kick start as I've done on all singles. I allow time for the float bowl to fill before attempting to start but it might not be long enough. I also shake the bike before tuning the fuel on as I have in the past on mini motos had issues with the premix settling. Thanks for offering to pop over Lester, I might take you up on that if the techniques don't work for me. Edited January 22, 2014 by totty79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lestergg2005 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 No bother man. Some bikes have "funny quirkes" that just need to be understood. Once you have this I'd bet you'll have it sussed. Some start without choke etc, some like a whiff of throttle, some bikes if you open the throttle with the choke on will never start etc. All good fun eh ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totty79 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 It's all good fun - once you know the quirks. I've got some bits sussed - this bike does not seem to like any throttle, neither did my VFR, my monkey bike needs a blip during the kick, my CB550 needs a late blip after it's fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourian Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Is the float valve sticking? Try - removing fuel pipe from petrol tap and then blowing down fuel line, reconnect and wait for float bowl to fill, then try starting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thats_a_five Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Most of the tipping, rocking, pushing techniques are about making sure the float bowl is full and making sure the piston is near TDC. I do not like having to do such things but if they work, I will not argue with them. From my experience, the Pro motors do like to spin fast to start. Make sure the gearbox is in neutral, not just pulled in clutch. Get to TDC and give a quick kick. One caution, make sure you take the slack out of the kicker before you kick. Just stomping on the lever will cause a hard impact on the starting gears if you do not take out the slack first. Stomping with slack leads to broken starter gears. I suspect it is a fuel related problem. Give the carb a good cleaning, change any fuel filters and use fresh fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Try draining the float bowl by loosening the bolt on the bottom of the float bowl then allowing a minute for it to refill. Choke on.Then shift the bike up into 4th gear. pull the clutch lever in and rock the bike back and forth until the clutch breaks free.If it frees immediately then release the clutch and rock it again until you've had at least 5 repetitions.Don't go more than 10 times.Shift back to neutral and kick away. Fuel looses it's volatiles quickly these days. Draining the float bowl and refilling helps tremendously with starting. I agree and would add to drain the tank and carb completely. Fill tank with fresh premix (from the station, NOT an old gas can). The carb, tank and gas can lose the "high-end aromatics" in fuel that are there to aid starting and their effects are cumulative. Using fuel from a stored can, if plastic, means you are not starting with "fresh" fuel and may need to change your storage techniques. If this makes the bike easier to start, it could be your problem. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 what is this fuel loses its volatiles.. ive a number of bikes and some go 18 months without running and they start easy every time. a fella took a bike from me last week that i had nt run since the day i bought it at least 18 months ago.. it started 3rd kick for me and the next day when he picked it up it started 2nd kick and ticked over to the point he turned it off.. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipdamite Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 http://www.frost.co.uk/ethomix-additive.html I have just started using this. used initially for over-wintering of the road bike and mrs shipdamites 67' beetle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Sounds like fuel evaporating from the carb leaving an oily over rich mixture that may be hard to atomize and even clogging the jets. This problem can be made worse by a leaking petrol tap, this continuously re fills the float bowl as the more volatile components (needed for easy starting) evaporate again leaving something akin to diesel oil in the carb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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