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2014 coolant temperature

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I recently added a trail tech in coolant temperature sensor to my 2014 Ossa TRi 250, I am seeing coolant temperatures of 220 to 230 degrees F during extended climbs of 1000 to 2000 feet at 5000 ft elevation.  Can any Ossa owners confirm the coolant temperatures they see during high load operation.  New cooling fan, radiator clean, fan relay good, fan turns on at about 160 and off at 155.  No lifting of radiator cap relief, idle speed drops about 200 rpm at elevated temperature.  See coolant temperatures of about 150 to 170 during normal trials riding activity.   

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46 minutes ago, oaktrials said:

I recently added a trail tech in coolant temperature sensor to my 2014 Ossa TRi 250, I am seeing coolant temperatures of 220 to 230 degrees F during extended climbs of 1000 to 2000 feet at 5000 ft elevation.  Can any Ossa owners confirm the coolant temperatures they see during high load operation.  New cooling fan, radiator clean, fan relay good, fan turns on at about 160 and off at 155.  No lifting of radiator cap relief, idle speed drops about 200 rpm at elevated temperature.  See coolant temperatures of about 150 to 170 during normal trials riding activity.   

nothing ossa specific, but sounds about right for most any trials bike. you are limited with trials radiators though, as they are not made for hard running like an enduro

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Also depends a lot on OAT ( Outside Air Temperature.), which will be lower at altitude, but it is Summer...

.

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As above, and additionally...

The thing about the OSSA is that motion of the bike does not force air through the radiator -- it's all up to the fan.

The ECU is programmed to turn the fan on at a coolant (in the head) temperature of 80 C (176 F) and off at 70 C (158 F), which is consistent with your numbers. 

It's likely the ECU is programmed to enrich the mixture at elevated coolant temperature in a self-preservation mode.  This would account for the drop in idle speed you see.  This is common in high-power cars that can't sustain flash dyno readings due to radiators limited by other constraints.

Basically, the bike was not designed for extended climbs.

Edited by konrad
Fixed error, swapped on and off temperatures

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Anyone has some suggestions to improve cooling ? Every time I'll. Limb about 200mt at 50/60% gas I can found the first 2 cm of the radiator empty due to water go out from the radiators cap.

ECU can be programmed to start fan at 70° instead than 80° for example? On heavy use when fan start is too late to prevent over heat of the coolant (I think). 

Fan speed can be increased using some step up converter that boost up the voltage of 1/2 v? If it is powered by 12 v can be connected to a different line , for example the one that supplies the voltage to  the water pump that is higher ?

Any idea or example to force more air go thought the radiator ? 

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Some (slight) fluid loss due to thermal expansion of the coolant is normal.

I was going to suggest using a 1.6 bar Kawasaki radiator cap, but just tested this and it does not fit my radiator.  Still, you can probably find a higher pressure cap than standard (which is 1.2 bar) that will fit.

You can use distilled water instead of antifreeze (coolant).  Pure water has better heat transfer properties than antifreeze and this will lower the system operating temperature somewhat.  But using pure water has drawbacks, namely: lower boiling point; no corrosion protection; no freeze protection.  I use Motul's MoCool to provide some corrosion protection.  The recommend concentration is 5%.

You can unplug the coolant temperature sensor.  This will make the fan run 100% of the time.

As you mentioned, running the fan at a higher voltage (maybe fabricate a DC-to-DC boost converter?) would make it turn faster, but would probably also decrease its life.

P.S. you can also use K-Scan to enrich the A/F mixture up to 5%, but this will likely have a detrimental affect on power (but you may be able to tolerate a few percent).

Edited by konrad

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Thanks konrad, i think that increase fan voltage about 1-2 V has a minimum effect on fan life (that is about 4-5 years of normal operation so its not an expensive problem).

If i remember right (from your manual) the fuel pump get a +15V from some where (direct stator wiring?), do you think its possible to use this voltage instead create a DC-DC converter?

Also for the fan i'll probabily install a manual switch to override the sensor so i can control it and avoid 100% working time.

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5 hours ago, matteo.lavaggi said:

If i remember right (from your manual) the fuel pump get a +15V from some where (direct stator wiring?), do you think its possible to use this voltage instead create a DC-DC converter?

Possible, yes.  But risky too.  Power comes from the stator, but rectification/regulation happens inside the ECU.  This additional load could cause that part of the ECU to fail, or create enough extra heat inside the ECU to cause something else to fail.  If the additional load of the fan caused a drop in voltage, the fuel pump pressure would be decreased which would have an effect on fuel injection volume.

I have a couple other thoughts...

Does the boiling occur as you are riding or when stopped and the fan stops? (Install a small clear "catch bottle" on the radiator overflow to see when fluid loss occurs.)  Maybe it's better to ride around slowly after a steep assent?

What happens if you remove the plastic "beauty cover" that goes over the airbox/fan/ecu area?  Does that improve airflow enough to decrease the operating temperature?  I would install a temperature gauge so you know what help/hurts.

Edited by konrad

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Hi, i think there is a mistake:

 

Flywheel AC its rectified and regulated inside the regulator, not in the ecu. 

THE RJ output of the regulator is shared between the light connector, condensator, and go in the ECU, so i think this is the "poorest" regulated +12V that was used for light (not sensible to voltage differences so much) and connected to the condensator to power it up and rectify some pulse ecc.

Also taking a look on electrical diagram seem that the VR line that go out from the ECU is shared between 

FAN REALYS

ALLERT LIGHT

INSTRUMENTS POWER

FUEL PUMP

 

So i think this is a more "rectified and regulated" power line, but i'm not sure is +15V  because is shared from FAN and instrumentations.

 

For the usage info, the overheat come when use for a "long" time > than 50% gas (example 10 minutes of 4th gear 50% gas to climb a mid elevation). FAN NEVER stop to run when bike is over-heated. To have it stop run need to power off bike (or maybe waith more and more times in idle).

 

I'm not shure for yourthe last question: Radiator has 2 simple lateral "plastic parts" with 2 small "wings" that does nothing to increase air flow, and does nothing to decrease it (i think), They are quite useless, purely aesthetic in my opinion.

I need to get more detail on over-volt the fan , or maybe increase the "wings" so they can catch some air when ride to "high" speed

 

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2 hours ago, matteo.lavaggi said:

Flywheel AC its rectified and regulated inside the regulator, not in the ecu.

I think it's both.

 

Item 7 below is what I am calling the "beauty cover".

I see what you mean about VR wire!  I was told by a knowledgeable person that works with Arctic Cat snowmobiles (also uses similar Kokusan Denki ECU) the fuel pump is powered separately.  A lot of what I found lead me to agree with that.  But I'm not so sure now.   I don't have a running bike right now to investigate further. 

When you run K-Scan, "pump voltage" and "battery voltage" are reported separately.

P.S.  I recently found out that the OSSA fuel pump is a standard part used in other motorcycles.  This makes me think it odd not to just run it from 12V (battery) power. 

 

Parts Book p.6.jpg

Edited by konrad

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Hi, remove this parts why will increase cooling performance? they dont stop air flow, i dont think is a good idea because it protect filter, fan, ecc parts ;). I will try on the "side" plastic, i think i've better possibility to take some advantage.

 

This weekend i will measure some voltage over the VR cable, but i think is 12V because it power up instrumentation ;)!


Thanks i'll back with more info on weekend

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Regarding item #7 (I called it a "beauty cover").  Perhaps a better name could be "access cover" or "body cover" or just "cover"?   It's called "airbox cover" in the OSSA parts book.  But that's not a good translation.  They call the actual airbox cover the "air filter manifold".

Although it's desirable to keep item #7 installed, I suggested testing without it.   I rode my bike for an entire day without that cover (which made getting to the diagnostic port easier on the 2011 model).  I can tell you the fan was loud, very loud, objectionably loud!  Also, the 2014 cover has louvered openings whereas the 2011 cover does not.  So I think the cover must have some affect on cooling.

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I, first of all, a new FAN is 5 times less loudable than an used one. I've replaced the mine that make a terrible noise, now i've serviced it and i think it can be used for other 4 years.

Unmount the fan, remove the rubber cover and spray inside a lot of concatc-brake cleaner. Waith some minutes and put the motor side bottom to allow the cleaner goes out. Repeat 3-4 times.

Next leave the fan ON at a vary low voltage (about 5v) for about 15 minutes apply regular spry inside (dont care if it come out).

Clean with air compressed and spray a lubrifican like wd-40 . refit the rubber cap ;)

 

Now for the cooling trouble i've choose 2 way:

 

1) install a 1.8 bar radiator cap

2) use only 100% pure coolant liquide (dont boil)

3) install jitsie silicon tube with double protective stocking to avoid expansion

For the fan i'm in trouble to find a DC-DC stepup converter usable. i've buy 3 different parts from ebay and amazon and all fails. All 3 claim to power 10A but are not able to power up the fan right, one result in a low voltage instead hig one. Other 2 simply fail when powered.

Its not easy to find a good DC-DC converter.

i've measured the fan and it consume about 4A on 12.5V , And power it for 10 mimutes at 15.5v with no problem (the air flow is much more!!!) . Also the datasheet of the fan report the test result on 14V so i'm sure that fan can work GREAT on 16V.

 

If im not able to find a good Dc-DC stepup converter i need to create one from zero, but today are about 10 year that i not print a PCB board, so i need some time or arrange it in a "cable free" way. 

 

 

 

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motul motucoll factory hai la ventola andata credo mettine una nuova in tutte la moto da trial nel suo uso la ventola non si spegne mai ciao

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