jrsunt Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 I didn’t mean to name and shame, but have a word with them, a little investigation now could save them a big headache down the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 On the up side the 4RT engine is designed to survive low oil pressure far better than a regular Honda engine costing near half as much, there are roller bearings instead of oil pressure bearings or on near everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldarmybiker Posted February 6 Author Report Share Posted February 6 On 1/28/2024 at 1:30 PM, Oldarmybiker said: Jrsunt, thanks for that advice. Not naming anyone at this time. lemur, oil strainer always been clean each oil change I have done and the dealer said it was clear also. On 1/28/2024 at 1:30 PM, Oldarmybiker said: Jrsunt, thanks for that advice. Not naming anyone at this time. lemur, oil strainer always been clean each oil change I have done and the dealer said it was clear also. I have got to the bottom of the problem! There is a manufacturing defect in the cover where an oil way has not been fully drilled through between the PRV (seen with circlip in previous photos) and the oil ways which go to the crankshaft and back into the crankcase. The latter is the untapped middle hole that can be seen in the top right photo and, judging from its location at the front end of the barrel, probably provides the oil supply to the top end. Effectively, the oil filter exit has been blanked off and not allowing any oil through. I cannot see the lubrication system being a 'bypass' one if oil is to be fed, at pressure, to the crankshaft and top end. Therefore, there has been no direct oil feed to the crank and top end from the first turn of the motor! Yuuurk! The main bearings are shells so will suffer badly from a lack of any oil supply. Not sure why the engine has not protested yet? Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 16 minutes ago, Oldarmybiker said: ... The main bearings are shells so will suffer badly from a lack of any oil supply. Not sure why the engine has not protested yet? Any ideas? You got a part number for that shell bearing? 🤔 I think the oil pressure is mostly top end and you haven't experienced problems yet because it's built really well and the oil in the wet sump and splash off the cam chain was sufficient to stop it from imploding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldarmybiker Posted February 6 Author Report Share Posted February 6 35 minutes ago, lemur said: You got a part number for that shell bearing? 🤔 I think the oil pressure is mostly top end and you haven't experienced problems yet because it's built really well and the oil in the wet sump and splash off the cam chain was sufficient to stop it from imploding. On 1/28/2024 at 1:30 PM, Oldarmybiker said: Jrsunt, thanks for that advice. Not naming anyone at this time. lemur, oil strainer always been clean each oil change I have done and the dealer said it was clear also. Hello lemur and everybody. Sorry, I was talking cobblers about the main bearings! Just looked at my parts diagrams and all bearings in the motor look to be rollers as you have pointed out. Not sure what I was looking at or thinking to come up with shells. That would explain why the bottom end at least has soldiered on! lemur, if you need the complete parts diagrams I can happily send you the .pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 Online manuals are easy but thank-you. Document the heck out of that part if you are going for a new engine, hopefully that happens. I'd be most worried about heat near the exhaust valves and would be inclined to take pictures of inside the top end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrsunt Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 Glad you’ve got to the bottom of it. If you’re trying for warranty, it’s not quite the same as going to Mr Lampkin or Mr Birkett and saying there’s a problem as they are the brand and they give a **** about their product. Often at Honda, there isn’t a face, the person you speak to on the other end of a computer is there because it’s a job, they don’t even know what a trials bike is. The dealer will have to submit a warranty claim on the dealer network, it’s a lengthy and tedious job which puts dealers off from doing it in the 1st place. Photos, photos and more photos will have to be submitted. Once this has been done and authorised every single part that needs to be replaced has to be itemised!!!! That is a task alone on this claim. I don’t think you can claim for a full engine without speaking to the factory…. In Spain. It is going to take a lot of time and phone calls from a dealer to get to Mr Lampkin or Mr Birkett at Honda. It is possible. You need the dealer on side as it is a pain in the a*** for them. If you’re not getting anywhere, I may know someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldarmybiker Posted February 9 Author Report Share Posted February 9 Thanks for that jrshunt, especially for the potential offer. I worked in the business for a few years in between two army careers and am under no illusions this is going to require diplomacy, determination and effort. Fortunately I am retired and have the inclination so will be getting lots of ducks in a row before getting the ball rolling. I will keep this post updated as to the progress, trials an tribulations of my journey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldarmybiker Posted February 12 Author Report Share Posted February 12 Evenin' all. A picture paints a thousand words! I have annotated this one for those who are maybe not familiar with the engine. As this is a significant and unarguable defect that has totally compromised the lubrication system, I am looking to a new engine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldarmybiker Posted March 13 Author Report Share Posted March 13 Right! The bike is now at the dealer and they have raised the issue with Honda. We'll see how that goes in due course. Before it went in I showed them the cover and they agreed to have another look. I then did a couple of oil changes, the first with the PRV removed so that oil could return directly into the crankcase. After running the bike briefly and then opening it up the filter was soaking and the housing full to the brim. So I know the oil pump is working. The second with a new filter and the PRV back in. I took a contiguous video of the following inspection which was, as before, a bone dry filter and housing. Clearly there is a blockage after the PRV, stopping any oil feed to the bottom and top ends. A shortened clip is attached here. No it's not as it seems that mp4 is not acceptable, Sorry. Is it possible to get videos on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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