dirtrider86 Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 Probably a very dumb question, but I really have nothing to compare it to since I am new to this. But noticed when I go for a trail ride (to get to my destination) its very uncomfortable and very hunched forward; it is an older trials but perhaps something I need to get used to? or are there trials with a more "enduro" erogonmic type of stance, if that makes sense? Yesterday when I went out to practice on very rocky terrain, i had a lot of pressure on my arms and wrist and lower back due to being hunched forward; again I am new to trials so just trying to fi gure it all out. Top it all off, I have "entered" my first trials event, so im sure I will get to experience a lot of things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1AL Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 (edited) 4 hours ago, dirtrider86 said: Probably a very dumb question, but I really have nothing to compare it to since I am new to this. But noticed when I go for a trail ride (to get to my destination) its very uncomfortable and very hunched forward; it is an older trials but perhaps something I need to get used to? or are there trials with a more "enduro" erogonmic type of stance, if that makes sense? Yesterday when I went out to practice on very rocky terrain, i had a lot of pressure on my arms and wrist and lower back due to being hunched forward; again I am new to trials so just trying to fi gure it all out. Top it all off, I have "entered" my first trials event, so im sure I will get to experience a lot of things Your older trials bike is no different than a current trials bike in the way it feels when stood on it . You should support your self with your legs when stood on the pegs/footrests not lean on the handlebars while riding . if you are tall try using bar raisers or taller/higher bars .Use trials bars NOT MX ones if you do change them , you should also not grip the bars tightly or you will end up having arm pump. The usual way to ride trials bikes is one finger covering the front brake lever and one finger covering the clutch lever at more or less all times but of course you can ride it however you like its your life. The thing about trials bikes is they are designed for competing in trial competition only and they are not comfortable to ride on trails or on the road as they are not designed for that purpose you just have to adapt. If you are 5ft 6" tall then they will be much more comfortable , Bou and Jaime Busto are ideal size trials riders as on the trail they can stand up straight. and their centre of gravity is so much lower which is probably the reason that they are the top riders . If you are taller then unfortunately you need to bend your knees and crouch a little while riding and support yourself with a strong pair of legs. Edited April 12 by Tr1AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 Hieght has nothing to do with it. My son is 6'6" and laughs at people who complains. Most human bodies are proportionate. Long legs AND long arms mean they have an advantage over short people, not the other way around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1AL Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 2 hours ago, lineaway said: Hieght has nothing to do with it. My son is 6'6" and laughs at people who complains. Most human bodies are proportionate. Long legs AND long arms mean they have an advantage over short people, not the other way around. Not sure that its an advantage to be tall on a trials bike riding on the trail , overhanging tree branches will let the tall rider know that its not an advantage. If you are an Enduro rider it is an advantage to be tall for example Pol Tarres 6ft 7" who bailed on Trials competition and went over to the tall seat bikes scene. I know who I would rather be riding the Scottish Six Day Trial with all that road work to do on a trials bike , short legs fold up smaller than gangly long legs when you are sat on a trials bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 You do not sat during the scottish! D. Lampkin is tall too. Maybe we should change triala bikes to endueo specs. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on it Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 8 hours ago, lineaway said: You do not sat during the scottish! D. Lampkin is tall too. Maybe we should change triala bikes to endueo specs. LOL. so what about all the road mileage then ? at the ssdt or people should get the correct bike for the job a trIals for trials and a trAil bike for trail, riding, simple really how a spelling mistake of A and I changes what a bikes for ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 OK quick arguing about whether tall or short is an advantage, it doesn't help answer this person's question. @dirtrider86 When you state "older trials" are you referring 10-15 year old machine or even older? - but either way my notes below still apply to both. I used to suffer from low back pain and sore wrists due to riding position. 2 small changes made all the difference so that I could support myself with my legs and not lean on the bars. 1. Bar risers - I didn't go crazy, I think I got the 10mm risers at V-Mar racing. https://vmar.com/barmounts.html#close - Same results could be gained using taller bars. and as @Tr1AL stated be sure to buy Trials bend, this is what they are designed for. 2. Bar width - I cut my bars shorter so that my forearm, wrist and hand were all in line. I will explain, this one takes some visualization to understand. stand on your bike, place your hands as far apart on the bars as possible - notice that your wrists bend outward and your back is bending forward Now bring your hands inward on the bars until your forearms and wrist are in a relative straight line. Your back will also move to a straighter position - you should be able to find a natural feeling position that is still somewhat bent forward. Setting the bar width for my "wingspan" solved the sore back from having a too forward riding position and solved the sore wrists from having them bent at an uncomfortable angle. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtrider86 Posted April 13 Author Report Share Posted April 13 3 minutes ago, zippy said: OK quick arguing about whether tall or short is an advantage, it doesn't help answer this person's question. @dirtrider86 When you state "older trials" are you referring 10-15 year old machine or even older? - but either way my notes below still apply to both. I used to suffer from low back pain and sore wrists due to riding position. 2 small changes made all the difference so that I could support myself with my legs and not lean on the bars. 1. Bar risers - I didn't go crazy, I think I got the 10mm risers at V-Mar racing. https://vmar.com/barmounts.html#close - Same results could be gained using taller bars. and as @Tr1AL stated be sure to buy Trials bend, this is what they are designed for. 2. Bar width - I cut my bars shorter so that my forearm, wrist and hand were all in line. I will explain, this one takes some visualization to understand. stand on your bike, place your hands as far apart on the bars as possible - notice that your wrists bend outward and your back is bending forward Now bring your hands inward on the bars until your forearms and wrist are in a relative straight line. Your back will also move to a straighter position - you should be able to find a natural feeling position that is still somewhat bent forward. Setting the bar width for my "wingspan" solved the sore back from having a too forward riding position and solved the sore wrists from having them bent at an uncomfortable angle. Thank you so much! Yeah I just have nothing to compare it to, or see whats normal or not. I am about 6ft 1, I was thinking about risers, but did not want it to mess with my abilities to learn. I might ask questions and compare my bike at the trials event, just to see what is normal or not. I do notice its a bit hard for me to not put pressure on my wrists though just because im so hunched forward. Its a 2001 gas gas TXT pro. As a perspective, I can stand a lot longer on an enduro bike vs my trials, but im just not sure whats "normal" ha ha. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 14 hours ago, Tr1AL said: Not sure that its an advantage to be tall on a trials bike riding on the trail , overhanging tree branches will let the tall rider know that its not an advantage. If you are an Enduro rider it is an advantage to be tall for example Pol Tarres 6ft 7" who bailed on Trials competition and went over to the tall seat bikes scene. I know who I would rather be riding the Scottish Six Day Trial with all that road work to do on a trials bike , short legs fold up smaller than gangly long legs when you are sat on a trials bike. Yes, a trials bike is very uncomfortable when running long periods down roads. Thankfully you can stand back up to stretch at any given moment, An early pro model bike is not much different from current bikes as far as trail riding. Just do it more to build up stamina. Once you start riding events, you never think about standing all day as you are focused on riding. Now some of those long down hill sections can sure take a toll. We are talking miles at a time. Zippy is right about the bars. I have been cutting mine down for 52 years now. That`s the first thing anybody notices when they get on my bike. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 and it doesn't take much to shorten the bars to where it is comfortable. I think I cut 1/2 inch off each side. Start small, you can always cut more off, a bit harder to add it back on. Risers won't mess with your ability to learn, being uncomfortable and in pain will mess with your ability to learn. Down side of using risers with low bend bars, it brings the center of the bar up so there is more possibility of hitting your body with the bars on big ups. Bars with a taller bend will give height but keep center of bars out of the way of the body. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1AL Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 21 hours ago, lineaway said: You do not sat during the scottish! D. Lampkin is tall too. Maybe we should change triala bikes to endueo specs. LOL. Being that you are in the USA and have obviously never seen the SSDT in its complete form you can be forgiven for thinking that riders do not sit down for quite long periods of time on their bikes during the Scottish while riding on the road in between sections , although it is a fact that they do and always have. There is a lot of footage of the SSDT on the internet showing riders doing just that . We live and learn. As you say DL 12 is over 6ft tall and I think uses no bar risers and as far as I know uses a 4 1/2" rise bar . He is a 'croucher ' on the bike with very strong legs like most serious trials riders have. He obviously is not hindered by his taller than average for a trials riders height . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted April 14 Report Share Posted April 14 Actually I would not have thought riding on the road would lead you to be making bike changes. And I know plenty about the Scottish. We have had 3 women and 2 men ride it over the years Besides Lewisport began there American adventure with my club. 52 years now I have been riding trials. The Scottish has always impressed me and the SCOTT has always been the opposite. All this B.S. over a noob that does not like the trials stance. He should have spent a few hours on a real trials steed. Like the ty250r 1984 model. The best bike ever, until it was not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtrider86 Posted April 14 Author Report Share Posted April 14 (edited) On 4/13/2024 at 6:58 AM, lineaway said: Yes, a trials bike is very uncomfortable when running long periods down roads. Thankfully you can stand back up to stretch at any given moment, An early pro model bike is not much different from current bikes as far as trail riding. Just do it more to build up stamina. Once you start riding events, you never think about standing all day as you are focused on riding. Now some of those long down hill sections can sure take a toll. We are talking miles at a time. Zippy is right about the bars. I have been cutting mine down for 52 years now. That`s the first thing anybody notices when they get on my bike. Thank you!! I do not have any other trial bike to compare it to, so was never sure if it was proper or not. But I think I will eventually get used to it! And I 100% understand what you are saying. Once I get to my destination, I am not even focusing on the positioning haha its only when Im on my way to the destination. I was thinking about getting one of those velcro seats, then taking it off when I get to the playground but unsure if that would just be a waste of money. Unfortunately, it takes like 20mins to get to the practice area. And its funny because when I am there practicing, like you mentioned, all of that thinking goes away Edited April 14 by dirtrider86 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted April 14 Report Share Posted April 14 On 4/13/2024 at 4:10 PM, Tr1AL said: Being that you are in the USA and have obviously never seen the SSDT in its complete form you can be forgiven for thinking that riders do not sit down for quite long periods of time on their bikes during the Scottish while riding on the road in between sections , although it is a fact that they do and always have. There is a lot of footage of the SSDT on the internet showing riders doing just that . We live and learn. As you say DL 12 is over 6ft tall and I think uses no bar risers and as far as I know uses a 4 1/2" rise bar . He is a 'croucher ' on the bike with very strong legs like most serious trials riders have. He obviously is not hindered by his taller than average for a trials riders height . Come on if you are so knowledgeable about running diwn the road at the Scottish. Hieght, bars, awkwardness is the least any of the riders are worried about . Its all about the bike!@ Fuel, carburation, cooling and above all TIME@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted April 15 Report Share Posted April 15 (edited) The answer to your question is kind of yes and no What angle are your handlebars at? Most pros run their bars very far forward due to them spending most of their time on the back wheel. For general riding this adds a lot of weght to the wrists, though i doubt youve copied their bar positions. Looking at the bike from the side id aim for the part of the bars going up from the clamps to be roughly vertical, ie slightly foward from the projected line of the fork legs, but lesser riders tend to have them further back than this. Further forward is only useful for trick riding. Its really not the forwardness of the bars but how far back the footrests are on modern bikes that puts the weight through your arms. Most bike post 90 have similar riding positions. I actually find some 80s 90s bike worse for this because their footrest are just as far back but with a higher position than modern bikes. You could be riding too much in attack mode like you would when standing on an enduro or mx bike. Youre kind of holding onto the bars for dear life so to speak. As you improve, your relaxed riding stance may become a bit more straight backed, which relieves weight from the bars. In tight turns you want to position your weight preferentially over the front, but when riding straight you want to have most of your weight over the rear wheel through your legs. 90% of trials is about rear wheel grip and a light front end. If your arms are sore it sounds like youre loading the front end too much of the time Edited April 15 by faussy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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