NoTraction Posted May 1 Report Share Posted May 1 Following on from my other Beta thread... can anyone comment on what the Beta 4t Evos are like? Are the 300's a mellow well handling bike? And how do they stack up against the 4RT? I've had a slight hankering for a 4RT and like the idea of a 4 stroke generally but whenever I mention I usually get told that it will be no good in the mud (we get LOTS of that where I am) and that 'Ill get fed up with the weight of it. Not so worried about the weight, it would be lighter than my Fantic, I'm sure! But after enjoying my TRS and previously my Gas Gas (which I loved) I'd be a bit concerned about buying something thats going to be a pig to ride then regretting it, just because it looks and sounds nice... stick to a two stroke, they all say....! But is it it the case and is the Beta 4t of either 250/300 variant any more forgiving/better/worse in wet muddy UK conditions..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted May 1 Report Share Posted May 1 The fuel injection on the 4RT is superlative, it's the feature most lacking on the Beta 4T. Whoever told you the 4RT is not good in mud is simply wrong, the 4-stroke excels in the mud or on snow and ice. The Montesa suspension feels far more grounded than the TRS which has an extremely lively suspension. I owned several versions of the 4RT and found the 300cc engine to be superior for pulling 3rd. gear. Two things you need to adapt to when going to the 4T from a high performance 2T: one is you need to calm your throttle movements and avoid blipping the engine, and two you need to learn to carry more revs in advance of needing the power. This is the first year since 1976 that I don't own a Montesa and at times I do miss them. I don't think there is anything I can do on my TRS 300RR's that I can't do on a Montesa 300, although the TRS just seems more fun and exciting to ride overall. Things I miss about the Montesa is cheap and easy fuel consumption and the Montesa was a far better bike to stud the tires and ride in winter. Montesa won't start if the engine is sub-zero, if it gets that cold you need to build a fire under it to thin the oil. In sub-zero the TRS lithium battery electric start is useless so you need to kick start it to play. Beta 4T from my experience was a #$%^ to start all time, particularly after a fall. Montesa wants to keep running even if the bike is upside down which is why it has a tilt switch to shut it down in a crash. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markparrish Posted May 1 Report Share Posted May 1 I can't offer any help with comparison, but my 250 Beta 4T is great for me in the mud and slippery chalk down south! I'm far from being an expert rider but find the softer delivery much easier to manage in slippery stuff than my previous 2T. It seems to pull nicely in any gear - I don't do hops and jumps...just plodding round! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTraction Posted May 1 Author Report Share Posted May 1 Thanks guys - helpful stuff 👍 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted May 2 Report Share Posted May 2 (edited) I have an 07 250 4RT and a 17 300RR Montesa and spend some good time on a 18 Beta 300 4T. For the most part they are very close however the Montesa has more pull at the low end with the Beta being softer on the low end. The Montesa has just a bit smother throttle through the full range with the top end of both being so close I couldn't tell the difference. The Montesa when swapped for a quick throttle tube (they come stock with a slow/black one) is a lot more aggressive than the Beta even my 250 is more lively with a quick throttle than the Beta however not as much pull as the 300 Beta above the half way point to the top but rev's quicker for sure. The Montesa seemed to carry the weight a bit lower and feels more planted than the Beta did, I found the Beta to be more lively for the suspension and even though the Montesa where adjustable can be nearly the same it still feels a bit less so I think because of how it carries the weight. On the traction side of things I find the Montesa to be much better in the wet than any of the 2T bikes I have been on (Gas Gas 125/250 2T, Beta 250/300 2T) however different and if your used to a 2T it will take some time to adjust to the difference. Between the two I side to the Montesa for the EFI over all considering the only adjustment I have ever had to do is idle/tick-over at very high elevation. Hope that helps a bit with at least one persons experience between a Beta and Montesa 4T. PS, Maintenance on the Montesa is more complex with the way they do the oil filter so that might be worth note. Edited May 2 by jonnyc21 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTraction Posted May 2 Author Report Share Posted May 2 Thanks for the detailed description, that pretty much covers all I wanted to know 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted May 2 Report Share Posted May 2 Can't say I ever had any problem replacing the inexpensive oil filter on a Montesa 4RT that can be purchased at any Honda dealer, not sure what people are finding difficult about that. The most complex service you are ever likely to need to do on every one of them is to adjust the valve clearances after about 3 to 5 years of operation. You will know it needs the valves adjusted when one day it becomes hard to impossible to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTraction Posted May 2 Author Report Share Posted May 2 I wouldn't be put off by the occasional need to do a bit of valve adjustement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted May 2 Report Share Posted May 2 The 4RT valves are easy to adjust once you can get to them, you will need to lower the front of the engine to do it easier. It has screw adjusters and not bucket and shims. The screw adjuster head is square and the same size as a red #2 Robertson head screw so you can improvise a tool to adjust the valves with a short stick of wood and a #2 Robertson screw in the end of it. Exhaust valve clearance is most critical because the cam shaft has a very small automatic decompressor built into it and that will stop functioning once the valve clearance is off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timdog Posted May 2 Report Share Posted May 2 Cant comment on 4rt but I've had 3 beta 4ts. Beautiful engine, the 300 pulls like a tractor, from p!onking along right through rev range and in any gear. 4stroke is a marmite thing so love them some don't. Factory much better due to better suspension/braking, personally i always fit an amal 80/200 throttle as i find the standard too fast. Bikes grips v well but you do need to ride different to 2 stroke. As mentioned above, less blipping and more of a steady throttle. If you add a bosi arrow silencer the sound is fantastic, not needed and expensive but v nice. Never had any need to adjust valve clearances or even to remove carb. Starting from hot or cold is fine once you get the nack. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted May 2 Report Share Posted May 2 (edited) Take a look at the bike count at this years Scottish for your answer of which bike to ride. Myself if all I rode was wet, it would be a 2 stroke Beta 250. The 4 stroke works well too. Beta 87 Gas Gas 2nd with 47 Vertigo 47 Montesa 30 Scorpa 27 TRRS 26 Sherco 24 P.S. I really love my Montesa. But we ride big dry rocks most of the time. If I ever change brands again it would be a Beta. Edited May 2 by lineaway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTraction Posted May 2 Author Report Share Posted May 2 15 minutes ago, lineaway said: Take a look at the bike count at this years Scottish for your answer of which bike to ride. Myself if all I rode was wet, it would be a 2 stroke Beta 250. The 4 stroke works well too. Beta 87 Gas Gas 2nd with 47 Vertigo 47 Montesa 30 Scorpa 27 TRRS 26 Sherco 24 P.S. I really love my Montesa. But we ride big dry rocks most of the time. If I ever change brands again it would be a Beta. It is kind of a thing over here - you’re really ‘left field’ and out there if you don’t ride a 2 stroke Beta or maybe a Gasser if you don’t like the sharp turning angle. I had a Beta Evo 200, it was a nice bike but I felt way more suited to my Gas Gas. But I’m really enjoying riding an older Fantic 200 I have in trials and so was considering a Mont or poss 4T Beta as a bike for some easy trials, some trail riding with a long distance kit, a bit of observing. And because I’ve got a monkey on my shoulder about trying a 4T and then either enjoying it or getting it out of my system! To be fair, a sharp wind could blow me in the direction of a ‘23 or newer Gas Gas which would be my ideal bike for purely trials progression but I just fancy trying something different and a bit more versatile for a while. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted May 2 Report Share Posted May 2 My son loved his Beta 4T. We ride from 2500 ft to 13000 ft elevation. So alot of jetting is required. Carb work is a bitch on the Beta 4 stroke, besides the manifold rubber breaks alot. When he got rid of his TRRS (which he bought, since I talked him into it) and fancied a return to a 4 stroke Beta he eneded up with a Montesa 300 RR. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTraction Posted May 2 Author Report Share Posted May 2 Slippery mud is unfortunately a major consideration in this part of the world, if it wasn’t for that worry there would probably be a Montesa or Beta 4T in the garage already - and I think the Montesa is edging it in this discussion purely because of the fuel injection for me over the carbed Beta 4T…. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 (edited) The mud was a big thing for me when I first got my 07 Montesa 250 as I was in western WA in the US and most of the time it was wet because of rain trees and included all kinds of wet leaves and stuff on the ground I had to ride in. I had two riding buddies at the time and both on 2T Gas Gas's and I didn't have any trouble riding with them. It was different and I started my trials on the Montesa as my first bike so that might have helped but never had any trouble with traction and keeping up with them and progressing. Move to Idaho a number of years ago now so had to re-learn how to ride on dry sticky rocks... was quite the adjustment. What ever way you go, good luck making the call! Edited May 3 by jonnyc21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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