19 replies to this topic

[copemech]

Yes I have ridden all so far, good and bad within the lot, but one thing is for sure, a carburator has its limitations, specially on a four stroke, it is simple physics, and has all been done before. You will not be able to ride it like a 2T, end of story! It will spit at you, and at the worst moment!

250 cc will work for the average rider, which may just be the 200cc = of the 2T which most need anyway,
but Sherco and Honda both figured out early on that it would not work in WTC competition. Scorpa has already proven that it takes 150cc in a 4T to really make the bike move!

Roumours have it that the Gasser 4T will have a flat head motor, not sure the displacement, I would be willing to bet it will be close to 300cc, but you can bet it will be compact!

Will the additional cost of fuel injection be worth it? It may take all the rest(GG, She, Bet and Sco) getting together to get Bosch or someone to build a system that they can sell enough to be cost effective for all! Make your own MAP! Or else we may all be stuck in the '70's!

Just my thoughts,

[AtomAnt]

There is no doubt that EFI is the best way to get fuel into the engine on a 4T. Honda wouldn't have done it otherwise. The carburetor is 100+ year old technology and needs retiring to the nearest museum.

IMHO

[Lowbrow]

Quote

Roumours have it that the Gasser 4T will have a flat head motor, not sure the displacement, I would be willing to bet it will be close to 300cc, but you can bet it will be compact!

How accurate are these rumours? Is the 4Gasser still in development, on ice or in the pawnbrokers?

[copemech]

I believe the Gasser is still in develpoment, but the roumour of the flat head design somes from upon high!

Of course things could change before we see it released.

Seems a very workable approach to me. Larger displacement and lower rpm! I just cannot see the need for 15,000 revs and five valves in a trials motor.

Edited by copemech, 18 November 2006 - 06:01 PM.

[spud]

copemech, on Nov 18 2006, 04:36 PM, said:

I believe the Gasser is still in develpoment, but the roumour of the flat head design somes from upon high!

Of course things could change before we see it released.

Seems a very workable approach to me. Larger displacement and lower rpm! I just cannot see the need for 15,000 revs and five valves in a trials motor.

How about 300cc EFI motor and bike weight of sub 70kg? I seem to recall a sale point for Sherco was weight and something this 4t chat in general is missing.

[gasgas]

One year ago we discussed the GG 4stroke as being a sidevalve lower cam motor.
I recvd this information from the dutch importer.
It was said to be a plus 300cc motor.Due to the camrod under the cilinder the point of gravity wld be lower as the overhead cam egines. Again it is strange that Honda did not go this way. Probably something to do with brand policy.
Like you said, no need for 4 valves at 500 rpm's.

Edited by gasgas, 18 November 2006 - 06:37 PM.

[spud]

gasgas, on Nov 18 2006, 06:32 PM, said:

One year ago we discussed the GG 4stroke as being a sidevalve lower cam motor.
I recvd this information from the dutch importer.
It was said to be a plus 300cc motor.Due to the camrod under the cilinder the point of gravity wld be lower as the overhead cam egines. Again it is strange that Honda did not go this way. Probably something to do with brand policy.
Like you said, no need for 4 valves at 500 rpm's.

350 - 400cc please in a bike weighing 65kg - i'll settle for two valves

[copemech]

One point I was trying to make was on the 125 4T's. I'm just not convinced it will work in any sort of upper level competition. They would need to inject them with HELIUM to make them perform with the 2T bikes!

[AtomAnt]

copemech, on Nov 19 2006, 01:20 AM, said:

One point I was trying to make was on the 125 4T's. I'm just not convinced it will work in any sort of upper level competition. They would need to inject them with HELIUM to make them perform with the 2T bikes!

I have the same opinion. 2T 125's struggle as it is. Unless the 125 4T could match that power output, I find it hard to believe they could make it competitive.

But, would like to be proved wrong..

They need to start recruiting jockeys

[Dixie]

Real trials bikes dont need to be competative at world level

they need to be reliable and good value for money..

the manufacturers want us to buy world class bikes that only 20 people in the whole world could ride anywhere near thair tru potential.

the little scorpa 175 is one of the best trials bikes i have ridden in a long time,and would be powerfull enough for most people

except r2 he needs a cr250 mx motor in a bmx bike ,

[Big John]

I agree somewhat with Dixie's comments.

IMHO...half the trials riders in this country think they can ride a big output two-stroke (or four-stroke for that matter), the truth is... they are all seriously over-biked!

Don't get me wrong, if they like being dragged through a section with plenty of power under their right wrist, then so be it, but let's face it, we can't all be Dougie Lampkin can we?


As long as they enjoy themselves!

Big John

[Andy M]

I am around 14 and half stone and my 125 Scorpa is capable of hauling me around, and a mate has the same bike and he is heavier than me and he gets on well with it. Also remember in Scotland the Japanese fella on a 90cc bike. I agree most people are "over biked". Thanks :thumbu

I would think the 175 is a good bit of kit though. EDIT; I noticed it got a bit of a slating on another trials site from a 2t rider. No names ...

Edited by bo drinker, 25 November 2006 - 10:38 PM.

[Austini]

I luv my little scorpa 175 and for 80% of the average joes out there its the ideal bike, sure theres a few large rocks I have to put more effort in to get up but that is far out weighed by the ease in which it does everything else. My son rides expert lines and cross trains on mine (when his BETA is getting fixed so quite often) and he reckons it has helped him out no end, especially in refining his techniques.
Technology wise the frame and suspension are up to date however the engine is out dated, in my opinion if owning an outdated engine means using strait unleaded, and changing the oil every month or so and almost zero maintainance required then i'll stay outdated!!!!

[spud]

I do like the baby scorpa, I also like the 200cc Gas Gas. I ride the 300cc Gas Gas and like Big John says I may fall into the category of being 'over biked'. I don't mind saying that seeing a Ariel 500 fully open is terrifying experience, such a beast of a bike some of them Pre67's. I've questioned why I choose to ride big trials bike and the answer is it makes me feel more confidant knowing I’ve got the power on tap. Perhaps a 250 will do me better but not for me yet. I’m comfortable riding my Gas Gas and should the day come when I say, "this Gas Gas 300cc is to much for me" I’ll sell it. Bike and perhaps riders perhaps should be judged on how they ride and not why they bought a paticular bike, it’s the riders choice and 99% of trials is all about what’s in the head.

Edited by spud, 27 November 2006 - 05:45 PM.

[nutter]

spud, on Nov 27 2006, 05:42 PM, said:

riders perhaps should be judged on how they ride and not why they bought a paticular bike

In your case badly!!!