104 replies to this topic

[jon v8]

I cant see what all the fuss is about,I've just got back from a VMCC trial where I rode amongst 80 odd Brit bikes with just a handful of twinshocks.Mostly pre unit,from shed to posh,barb wire to polished billet.We all had a damn good thrash round and nobody moaned about me having modern levers on me HT.
Move to the South West if you want to ride or see old bikes being used....

[wayne_weedon]

jon v8, on 22 January 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

I cant see what all the fuss is about,I've just got back from a VMCC trial where I rode amongst 80 odd Brit bikes with just a handful of twinshocks.Mostly pre unit,from shed to posh,barb wire to polished billet.We all had a damn good thrash round and nobody moaned about me having modern levers on me HT.
Move to the South West if you want to ride or see old bikes being used....

Sounds more like the trials down here when I was riding more regularly. We used to get allsorts from barely viable Bantams to a HRD Comet in various states/quality of conversion + the just dug out the shed twinshocks and the then modern stuff.

Everyone had a good time. Sadly that club is no more!

Wayne...

[totalshell]

Andy M, on 22 January 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

The biggest problem with the up and coming generation is they don't know the difference between a phillips or flat head screw driver.(It's frightening)

recently 'interviewed' a 16 yr old for an apprentice spot he 'd got more certificates than you'd need to start a bonfire alsorts of stuff in his folder.. asked him to choose which was the claw hammer from between a claw and lump hammer.. took him two attempts to get the right one.. nice lad let down by an education system that rewards everyone with bits of paper and delivers nothing of value to an employer..

Edited by totalshell, 26 January 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[Old trials fanatic]

totalshell, on 26 January 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

recently 'interviewed' a 16 yr old for an apprentice spot he 'd got more certificates than you'd need to start a bonfire alsorts of stuff in his folder.. asked him to choose which was the claw hammer from between a claw and lump hammer.. took him two attempts to get the right one.. nice lad let down by an education system that rewards everyone with bits of paper and delivers nothing of value to an employer..

Remember these are also the, according to many in another thread on TC, future of trials. If they are the future then we had better make the most of it while we can

[Tayld]

Young riders on Pre-65 bikes? At the risk of raising a few hackles I would most definitely say yes.
They are the future of Pre-65 and trials generally.
Now before things get heated let’s put some flesh on the bones of this statement.
Firstly this rider is not going to look for an entry in the Pre-65 Scottish and secondly the choice of bike would not include a Cub, Bantam, B40 or a unit Triumph 350/500 twin.
So the lovers of a big single have something to watch and listen to our young rider can be astride an Ariel HT or Royal Enfield Bullet.
Modifications? Yes, an oil bearing frame for the HT or a Crusader frame for the Bullet, lighter than original wheels with modern tyres and the suspension on a par with the rest of the field. Other parts might be changed but in reality there is no single “wonder mod” which is going to put either of these two bikes into the same league as the best Cubs let alone Tony Bou’s 4RT.
The rider has their part to play, and there are big requirements here because like other people I agree whole heartedly about the general lack of practical skills being gained by Britain’s youngsters.
Commitment is going to be required in spades.
Assuming a full year at least on our Pre-65 bike a modern bike is not going to be needed for a while.
Having access to a set of Imperial tools is definitely part of the process, keeping the bike going week after week is down to our rider. Guidance and specialist help will not be excluded but things like wheel bearings, chains, sprockets, changing tyres and general repairs are in the rider’s bucket. Likewise learning that getting the right replacement parts is part of game will be an eye opener. We may as well have the gaining of communication skills added to the practical ones.
If the bike is not fixed in time for Sunday, why not observe?
Now to the riding. Assuming our young rider is reasonably skilful the Sammy Miller rounds should be within reach with practice. In achieving this our rider will be exploiting the limits of the bike as a competition machine. The valves might bounce every now and again but after all having these big bikes being used is what the plot is about.
The owners of suitable Ariels are now probably having to take a lie down after reading this but if there is a game person with a Bullet out there, what do you think?

[Old trials fanatic]

Tayld, on 27 January 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

Young riders on Pre-65 bikes? At the risk of raising a few hackles I would most definitely say yes.
They are the future of Pre-65 and trials generally.
Now before things get heated let’s put some flesh on the bones of this statement.
Firstly this rider is not going to look for an entry in the Pre-65 Scottish and secondly the choice of bike would not include a Cub, Bantam, B40 or a unit Triumph 350/500 twin.
So the lovers of a big single have something to watch and listen to our young rider can be astride an Ariel HT or Royal Enfield Bullet.
Modifications? Yes, an oil bearing frame for the HT or a Crusader frame for the Bullet, lighter than original wheels with modern tyres and the suspension on a par with the rest of the field. Other parts might be changed but in reality there is no single “wonder mod” which is going to put either of these two bikes into the same league as the best Cubs let alone Tony Bou’s 4RT.
The rider has their part to play, and there are big requirements here because like other people I agree whole heartedly about the general lack of practical skills being gained by Britain’s youngsters.
Commitment is going to be required in spades.
Assuming a full year at least on our Pre-65 bike a modern bike is not going to be needed for a while.
Having access to a set of Imperial tools is definitely part of the process, keeping the bike going week after week is down to our rider. Guidance and specialist help will not be excluded but things like wheel bearings, chains, sprockets, changing tyres and general repairs are in the rider’s bucket. Likewise learning that getting the right replacement parts is part of game will be an eye opener. We may as well have the gaining of communication skills added to the practical ones.
If the bike is not fixed in time for Sunday, why not observe?
Now to the riding. Assuming our young rider is reasonably skilful the Sammy Miller rounds should be within reach with practice. In achieving this our rider will be exploiting the limits of the bike as a competition machine. The valves might bounce every now and again but after all having these big bikes being used is what the plot is about.
The owners of suitable Ariels are now probably having to take a lie down after reading this but if there is a game person with a Bullet out there, what do you think?

Well i cant dissagree with any of your points and would personally welcome anybody to the Classic Bike Trials scene. Why shouldnt the younger element ride a Classic no matter what type.

Only bit i didnt get was thet last bit. Way i read it is that you seem to advocate a younger rider scrounging a ride on somebody elses bike? Did i get that right? I never ever scrounged a bike off anybody else and dont think that anybody should. You ride your own bike that you bought and paid for. To much of this somebody builds a bike then hands it over to a "professional" rider to ride in an event IMHO. Thats also part of the problem. NO INVOLVEMENT. Only when you had to shell out your hard earned to buy and build it plus the on going pain of keeping it running, modifying and improving, will you really get the point of being a real trials rider. Also along the way, as you so rightly say, you will gain priceless skills in many fields that will make you a much better person. So apart from the last bit hear hear well said that man. If i have got it wrong about scrounging a ride then i appologise. BTW at 14 i had two paper rounds and a Saturday job plus i fetched shopping and helped the old man out in the school holiday just to pay for my trials bike and keeping it running so i have been there before anybody starts whining about their overcosseted prince or princess not having time or opportunity to earn.

[jon v8]

I think modern,cheap technology has alot to do with youngsters not being involved in older pursuits.My 13 yr old son is too busy making HDF films and uploading them onto You Tube to want to help me fix my bikes.... A couple of hundred quids worth of kit and he was away.(Plus kids seem to be born with IT skills in them now)
That and the education system that makes children feel that unless they go to Uni and get a degree they are a failure.(Forget the £40k debt)
I'm only 46 but I've just loved mechanical things - bikes mostly since I can remember.The parts bloke at Huxhams years ago was well impressed when I rang up asking for gearbox bearings for a K10 Suzuki - but it all seemed normal to me,I couldnt afford to pay anyone to do so I did it myself.My Dad wouldnt help as he hated bikes,so it was down to me.

[Old trials fanatic]

Probably also goes back to the dumbing down in the education system when Engineering was viewed as a subject to be looked down on, personally think I K Brunel was a GOD ! and i so wanted to BE Jack Hargreaves when i were a lad but as usual i digress, and what really mattered was micky mouse degrees in media studies YUK!!! The future for trials doesnt look bright when you think hard and deep about it does it. Perhaps THIS is the Golden age ? one last gasp then it will be gone?

Oh as for the 40k debt dont forget until you are earning more than most of us can hope to you dont start paying it back and considering there are so many doing degrees just because the thought of doing a proper job frightens them 5hitless, my wife runs a hall of residence so i've got a fair insight into this one, then most wont ever pay it back anyway.

Oh what ever happened to meccano and model railways/aircraft/boats

[wayne_weedon]

Old trials fanatic, on 27 January 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Oh what ever happened to meccano and model railways/aircraft/boats

No INSTANT gratification for the playstation generation!

[Tayld]

OTF is right to ask about how a bike would be provided. I am open minded on this aspect, it might be best if the rider buys the bike but someone else might also want to see their bike being used again but retain ownership.
By whatever route rider and bike come together the care and maintenance, including cost, is definitely intended to be part of the rider’s role. I agree the object would be lost if there was no involvement beyond riding. To hand back a dirty and possibly broken bike at the end of each trial knowing someone else is going to ready it for next week would achieve very little. Riding knowing all the preparation is your own work can be a reward in itself.
A “fully sorted” bike with all the trick bits fitted is probably the wrong place to start. I had in mind a running bike which would evolve with the rider. I bet on the fringes of most classic clubs there are competent young riders who want a challenge and dormant big bikes going unused.

[Old trials fanatic]

Tayld, on 27 January 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

OTF is right to ask about how a bike would be provided. I am open minded on this aspect, it might be best if the rider buys the bike but someone else might also want to see their bike being used again but retain ownership.
By whatever route rider and bike come together the care and maintenance, including cost, is definitely intended to be part of the rider’s role. I agree the object would be lost if there was no involvement beyond riding. To hand back a dirty and possibly broken bike at the end of each trial knowing someone else is going to ready it for next week would achieve very little. Riding knowing all the preparation is your own work can be a reward in itself.
A “fully sorted” bike with all the trick bits fitted is probably the wrong place to start. I had in mind a running bike which would evolve with the rider. I bet on the fringes of most classic clubs there are competent young riders who want a challenge and dormant big bikes going unused.

totally with you on that one. Think you posting spot on

[Johnny]

Old trials fanatic, on 27 January 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Oh what ever happened to meccano and model railways/aircraft/boats

The same thing that happened to the British car and motorcycle industry! Wiped out by creative, inventive and talented foreign engineers, whilst the old gits who ran our industries stuck their heads in the sand.

[DAVETOM]

Whilst its admirable that you`re thinking about the influx of new blood into the sport, its inevitable that numbers will decline, as most kids today have no connection with the bikes and just don`t `get` it.
Unless they are in a family of pre65 riders/fans, they have about as much interest in them as they do in steam trains, gramaphones or other out moded items of past technology.
You can`t blame the schools directly, there aren`t many(any ?) proper jobs or apprenticeships in engineering, construction etc that academically hopeless but hands on kids ( like I was ) can go into and learn a few skills these days, and `Mac` jobs paying minimum wage are the reason most kids stay on at Uni in the hope of avoiding.
There`s no shortage of young kids riding motocross, enduro, modern trials, mountain-biking, bmxing, karting, sailing, snowboarding, they`re not all on Playstations in their bedrooms.
The VMCC have noticed the numbers going down so they`ve been running `training days`, where you get to ride 25-30 bikes for about £30, and hopefully one or two might `get` it and maybe join in. Is that something that could be tried in the trials world? Turn up at a modern trial and let kids try the bikes, as they probably have no idea how much fun can be had on the old stuff? I went as a punter on a `training day` and found out how much fun could be had on low power `30s side valves with girders, and to return the favour, took my standard HT last year as they always need more bikes so people aren`t stood waiting too long. The HT went down really well, with guys coming back for 2nd or 3rd goes, although it was on tarmac they loved it.
Just an idea as it would be a shame if it disappeared too quickly. I`m 43 though and dont often meet many lads at pre 65 trials younger than me..

[Johnny]

I think that's a very good point. Its up to the current generation of ageing pre 65 riders to encourage younger riders to have a go. Its easy to dismiss all young people as lazy wasters who don't want to work etc etc (yawn) but that ain't the case. I say stop being miserable old gits and encourage young blood. Without that, as I said earlier, pre 65 is dying a slow death.

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's.


The VMCC have noticed the numbers going down so they`ve been running `training days`, where you get to ride 25-30 bikes for about £30, and hopefully one or two might `get` it and maybe join in. Is that something that could be tried in the trials world? Turn up at a modern trial and let kids try the bikes, as they probably have no idea how much fun can be had on the old stuff? I went as a punter on a `training day` and found out how much fun could be had on low power `30s side valves with girders, and to return the favour, took my standard HT last year as they always need more bikes so people aren`t stood waiting too long. The HT went down really well, with guys coming back for 2nd or 3rd goes, although it was on tarmac they loved it.
Just an idea as it would be a shame if it disappeared too quickly. I`m 43 though and dont often meet many lads at pre 65 trials younger than me..

Dave that is just what I have been saying for the past three or four years, and if anyone is intrested in setting up this sort of day I am in. and a good selection of bikes to ride could be available. Let me know what you think?

Regards Charlie.