the dabster

No cant see why. My understanding is if for example you overfilled with g/oil and created some pressure in the box it would vent through there. don't think it being missing / broken off is your problem. I might be wrong but you need to be looking for something else.

I don't think I articulated it as well as I could have chris, I realised this when I seen some of the responses. If you look at my opening comments you will see I'm trying to say it is proportionately more expensive to trade a gasgas at this time in contrast to other brands because of the action of the importer. I used the 911 example to show I understand depreciation and accept it in my dealings relative to the commodity your are buying and initial outlay versus second hand value. It was the disparity created by the actions taken I was irked at. Ultimately that does come down to cash but the context I intended was the principle if that makes sense.

Your comments encapsulate exactly what I am meaning. I don't care about the money. I have learned from this experience by speaking to people for instance, like Lawrence from BVM motos that I could pay up front for a brand new bike, send my old bike to him by courier and ask him to refund the difference in value; believing the price he decides is fair. I've actually done this with chas at John Lee motorcycles because of the distances involved. Someone else commented on an earlier thread that trust and loyalty don't pay mortgages... they do in my world. If you were still in the business you would be exactly the kind of person I'd deal with.

I agree with you wholeheartedly and thought this to be the case myself. When I initially posted I had no idea of the amount of new bikes to be shifted and the common theme being discussed by dealers was "we can't sell them because of what the importer is doing" excuse. As I said it was one dealer only that was opportunistic and as you rightly say had it not been raised on this forum many would not have even known about it. If it was to happen on a larger scale and over a longer period with future models it would influence which brand I selected for sure.

You're right you don't get it. I'm not looking for a 'better deal' or complaining about the lack thereof. I'm saying the goal post moving on the RRP of a new GG financially undermines those that are looking to part exchange for a new model. It's the principle of what's been done. I used the example of selling a second hand 911 to show it's not the money it's the principle. Name any other brand of bike in the trials market and hypothetically consider the fact that customers of these brands, looking to part exchange in the same manner I am, would not be penalised financially the same way a GG customer would right now because of the action taken by a single entity that has the ability to influence the future value of that model. I've actually had it said to me by dealers " If it was a Beta it would be different but I can go out and buy a new one for close to what you feel yours is worth, so why would I give you that". Who can argue with that, and as I initially said, because of this action GG ownership is proportionally more expensive than other brands in the same market.

There seems to be a certain amount of confusion around my initial post. This has nothing to do with dealer incentives or ways to make less desirable models more appealing etc. It's about an importer wilfully undermining the value of used bikes that belong to customers that keep a roof over his head. Surely it's in everyone's best interest to maintain a level of commercial integrity within a market to ensure it's ongoing success. When one faction makes a unilateral decision to enhance their own position at the detriment of others it destabilises that market. The same importer was profoundly aggrieved when customers were crossing the channel in their vans and buying bikes in Spain. The strength of the pound was such you could have a weeks holiday in the sun, pick a bike up on your return and still be cheaper than buying the equivalent bike via a recognised source! Certificates of authenticity were the order of the day and you couldn't purchase spares for that brand if you didn't have the appropriate paperwork. Not so acceptable then when the boots on the other foot! I was aware KTM dropped the VAT on the full range during Nov Dec and again I would urge those customers affected, make sure you reward KTM by selecting your next bike in a BMW dealership. I've used the example already in this thread and want to do so again to emphasise my point. If I were going to a Beta dealer this week with an 18 model looking to upgrade to a 19, my part exchange price would be rightly based on the original purchase price of £6399? I'll happily pay the difference. Margins aren't the issue for me, fairness and loyalty is.

not out of the realms of possibility.

none of the other importers can have any stock left over because no other importer is advertising brand new bikes at slashed prices. there's no way I can accept anything other than it's poor form.

No it was just conjecture

Yep, Very true. Stung once but once only.

I know all about residual loss chris the last three cars I sold were Porsche 911's. We are not talking percentages of loss or depreciation we are talking about an importer making a commercial move that ****s on everyone that ensured gasgas stayed in business in 2018 by buying their product, in order to bail himself out. No other importer has done this to my knowledge. Why would I buy gasgas again if I stand to lose more money when it comes to upgrade to the next year model in contrast to the other makes?

Exactly.

When someone buys a new bike at £6300 and keeps it six months and then wants to sell, he wants the trade in price to be based on the £6300 he paid not a dynamic sliding scale whereby the residual value is all of a sudden £5000. It's profoundly unfair. I paid 6200 for a TRS last year and traded it for 5K for the racing I have now. If I bought a factory Beta last July at 6500 I would hope for a market value of cica 4500 because J Lampkin isn't trying to punt any new ones at 5k and therefor my anticipated trade value has not been undermined. This has never been the case for the last ten bikes I have bought and sold annually.

You are spot on with your observations on both counts. I don't want to get caught up in a slagging match, It is a greenlight for unscrupulous dealers and the rot has been started by the importer that's all I'm saying. Don't want to go any further now and personalise it but do feel the need to say something about dealers because I have inadvertently identified one specifically. My local dealer is not involved and for the avoidance of confusion has always been very straight forward and fair. I have spoken to BVM about a deal and would commend them to anyone. Lawrence was very honest and possibly more than fair in his price given the fact he would have to sell the trade in, IMHO he is someone the buying public could have absolute confidence in. It has been just one dealer that lowballed and they will remain anonymous. Others will use it and who can blame them. The percentage lost on goods bought new is reasonably predictable but when the gross figure of a new unit changes at the end of the production year then the deficit created has to be sucked up by someone and its hardly fair it's the customer.

I don't need to do a survey my personal experience illustrates things perfectly. I buy an 18 racing for £6399 in july, go to upgrade this week and told by a dealer my trade value is £3500 due to the fact the importer has discounted his remaining stock of brand new 18 models to circa 5K. Dealer says why would I give you any more, I can't sell it because the importer has undermined the market! Look at the disparity in the figures that has created. The amount of discount he is offering to get rid of stock has proportionally impacted the figure I can reasonably expect to achieve as a trade in. It's simple economics or as the experts define it, the science of self interest!

I want to change every year I just need to be more astute about it now and definitely select a make that actually considers the customer properly.

Yeah, your right on both points. It's a shame because the people who work in these factories and the dealers and all the off spin of trials, have bills to pay and we should all encourage every aspect of this great pastime and sport, doing what we can to ensure it continues to thrive. I'm disappointed with this because I am financially disadvantaged for buying a certain brand by those meant to be promoting that brand!

It's not really across the board duggan it's specific to Gasgas. If I had an 18 Factory Beta this week looking to upgrade to the same 19 version I would not be looking at the cash outlay I am by virtue of the fact none of the other importers work like this.

not half price but significantly discounted

Dealers are offering £3500 for a six month old racing model that cost £6399 in July because they can buy the same model new from Gasgas for 5K.

I hear what you're saying Breagh but again it's not relevant in the context of my argument. Every year manufacturers attempt to develop and improve the brand, so each successive year the buying public have a subjectively perceived advantage / reason for making that upgrade. It's what perpetuates the business and keeps the sport current. There is financial disparity for anyone in the UK that bought an 18 racing Gasgas (and there must be many) directly due to the business model of the importer that ultimately means it will cost you more to be an annually returning customer - relative to other brands! The very thing that keeps everyone at Gasgas in a job.

Agreed but that's not what I'm talking about. I saying over and above the element you allude to GasGas have undermined the customers ability to get a proportionate return value (relative to other brands) when the new models come out because of this action. Is this not the bread and butter of all the dealers that are trying to sell their wares, come the release of new models people purchasing them and cascading the trade ins through the market to those that don't want the outlay of a new bike etc.

Sorry, it's the UK market I was referring to.

Has GasGas ownership just become the least value for money in the market. All the talk now is how people aren't spending the way they once were, Brexit affecting bike sales, stability of the pound etc etc and add into the mix a six month old racing only worth approximately half its new price because the importer has flooded the market with unsold stock ; but still wanting you to pay £6399 for this years upgrade. How does that work other than the obvious fact that buying GasGas is now £1000 dearer than other brands. So just when loyal customers wish to upgrade due to new model release they have to suck up the deficit, sounds fair enough in the ruthless world of modern commerce. Now then where's that Beta brochure!