I was trying to remember how long the series had been running, I only go back about 8 years as I never had a Brit bike before then. Didn't remember it went back that far though. Were trail bikes part of the original series or were they a later add-on due to falling entries? Seem to have it in memory they weren't and were introduced to bolster the entry in the distant past.
30-odd Pre-units is a lot but maybe echos my thoughts that 30 years on, many of those riders couldn't handle them any more. I seem to remember from the Sebac back then that the only trick looking bike belonged to Terry Wright although I've no idea what the actual spec was. Virtually all others were pretty standard, it was before the 'modernising' took hold
1979 was the first year-it was a closed circuit trial in those days at Camp and Warren. There were only 3 classes-
Pre 65 Four stroke under 340cc
Pre 65 Four stroke over 340cc
Pre 65 Two stroke
I seem to remember that the classes were not too popular, as it allowed BSA B40's (at 343cc) into the big capacity four stroke class,not what was intended. So,a couple of years later,1981,the capacity threshold was raised to 345cc.
All the bikes were pretty standard. On the Ariels,Ariel Leader hubs were about it..
I agree it is a strange class structure this year but it isn't responsible for the low entries. All the other classes are the same but the entries have been low for a number of years. Can't blame the ACU, the riders just don't enter. 2 routes to pick from so no excuse about too hard. Previously there has always been a Pre-unit class on the hard route and it is on average filled with the same 3 entrants, so it's never been well supported. There are actually more Pre-units on the hard route in this year's Sam Cooper than I can previously recall in the series as a whole but memory may be playing tricks. No-one rides a standard Pre-unit on the hard route and never has as far as I know. Someone local to me has a HT5 in period/original trim and I wouldn't even want to ride it up the road, never mind a trial.
You definitely can't accuse the ACU of favouring twinshocks as there is bugger all for twinshocks outside of the Miller/Normandale series in terms of a National championship. In both of those series they have been support classes for some time and were allowed into the Miller series only due to low British bike numbers to help the events survive. Whereas twinshocks have no single genre championship, British bikes have quite a few events between the AMCA and ACU - PJ1 championship, Pre65 Scottish, Rickman Briitish Bike championship, Yorkshire Classic, BMCA in the Midlands. No twinshocks allowed in any of those events.
There will inevitably be a decline in the number of Pre-units. Riders who rode them back in the day are getting on now and many just won't be capable of handling 300lbs of heavyweight bike through sections any more. More likely they'll switch to lighter bikes, Bantams etc. The next generation have no interest in riding an original Pre-unit and the cost of building a modernised one is horrific, so my guess is they will suffer a natural decline along with riders ageing.
Still doesn't explain why the other British bike classes are poorly supported though.
There were 7 Pre units on the hard route last year,admittedly a lot short of the 32 at the first event in 1979,followed by 37 the following year.
The ACU have got it wrong, and seem to have there heads in the sand, Or perhaps they have NO interest in keeping Classic British trials bikes, competing?
I think they are just going with the flow,and to most of them it is just a day job. There is no passion for British bikes anymore?
Regards Charlie.
They have got it wrong Charlie, and i suspect we will never find out whose bright idea it was, unlike when they get things right, and subsequently crawl out of the woodwork to take the credit. I know that you,along with others spectate at this event, and i'm sure its the pre units (on the hard route) in particular which you go to see.
Good luck with the Stoneleigh event, by the way, i'm sure its going to be a big success, i cant get,but i will make sure the Ariel is there!
As regards the entry list I think all Richard has done is miss of the British Replica part of the class name for class 9.
I do think though that the classes don't seem well thought out this year. The class 'British Replica and Pre-unit Springer' is the wrong name in my opinion. 'Specials', meaning non-standard components fitted was a better description. The way it is titled means ANY pre-unit springer has to go in this class, even if it was unmodified - assuming someone is mad enough to ride an unmodified Pre-unit on the hard course.
Replicas surely include all Faber, Mills or otherwise framed BSA machines, Cub replicas, James and FB replicas and Ariel, Matchless, Ajs with replica frames. However, the only bikes that ever seem to end up in the Replica class are any Pre-units plus one BSA. All the 2-strokes and other 4-stroke unit replicas end up in the 2-stroke or Unit classes. I don't think it is right that Pre-units should be in a class with small Replica framed 2-strokes, Cubs and C15. Seems a bit unfair, I think they should go back to having the Pre-unit hard route class as only modified bikes are realistically going to compete on the hard route.
If I entered on my BSA for example which class should it go in. It has a non-standard front end but it is a C15 frame not a replica. I'd quite happily go in the Replica class if I had to but it isn't actually a replica...
That sums things up exactly.
This event has always suited Pre units even on the main route, with sections pretty much as they were in the day,so its a shame that a class which is diminishing year on year anyway,has been further discouraged by the new rules.
Its certainly confused me, and is why i didnt enter on a pre unit. The regs for the Sammy Miller series say Pre Units on the hard route go in the British Replica's class, yet now,after the closing date there seems to be a class on the hard route for Pre Unit bikes?
No, That is easy route. The only way to get a ride on the hard route with a pre unit springer is to go in the british replica's class. The Sam Cooper has always kept the severity of sections on the sensible/easy side, and pre unit springers have often posted best performance of the day over the years. I'm sure Dennis Bridges never envisaged a day when there wasnt even a class for them.
No,i'm not sure that close up of the underside of the swinging arm does it any favours- it appears to consist of 3 pieces of extruded U section welded together. Explains why they haven't risked trying to hang a side stand off it though..
I'd expect it to be a WM2. While the tyre is off, measure the width between the ledges that the tyre locates on, if it is 1.85 inches,it is a WM2. Should it measure 2.15 inches,its a WM3, but thats not likely.
We bought two TL 250 Frasers new. Bright chrome was standard, but we asked for painted finish instead (both came with red frames). I think the price was the same though,but cant be sure.
Can't see why we're being so dramatic,there obviously just losing there old baggage so that they can move forward,hopefully this way the Sandiford name will be around for another 50 odd years.
They will all be happier people getting away from Honda..
Love.
If thats the case,its a bad choice of words. "in administration" hardly means all's well. As far as i'm aware it means that an administrator has taken control of the company and is selling off assets to try and settle debts.
Nice,very professional, -Are the Tallon hubs the same as Talon hubs?. Are the Marzochi forks the same as Marzocchi forks? The spec seems to suggest more than one piston,do you get a spare?
Interesting stuff,but not as interesting as price,or availability.
Going to use the standard forks for the moment.Got some new parts coming to rebuild them(keeping it real).Its quite funny reading about the use of titanium,overbored Cubs,trick suspension if you want all that why dont you ride a modern bike.Was the same with the Classic Road Racing,everyone to their own .
cheer the noo Brian
Very commendable,but looking at the first post,it was you who wanted to use Japanese forks and yokes in the first place..
1968 was the first year that Amal Concentrics were fitted to British road bikes. Triumphs, BSAs and Nortons all had Monoblocs in 1967.
I have an Amal brochure for the 600 and 900 series Concentric carburettors dated March 1967. The Settings list shows concentrics being fitted to BSA MK3 Spitfire in 1967
And while we are asking the questions, why does it keep being launched at a Classic show? Most bikes have classic names, does this also make them eligable to attend.
It does seem strange,especially as some of those who bought an Anglian off the same bloke, from his previous venture found that they had to rebuild it before they could ride an event on it.
He rode a 250 Montesa for a couple of years or so during the mid 1970's,with some support from Barrie Rodgers,before going back with the Bantam.
Johns day usually started with a white knuckle ride to the event in a plastic pig with a trailer owned by local lunatic Mick Carey. On one occasion he rolled it on the way to a trial.
I viewed Johns BSA C15 when it was for sale, but passed the opportunity to Barrie Rodgers who kept it for several years. I think he sold it about 3 years ago.
He rode a 250 Montesa for a couple of years or so during the late 1970's,with some support from Barrie Rodgers,before going back with the Bantam.
Johns day usually started with a white knuckle ride in a plastic pig with a trailer owned by local lunatic Mick Carey. On one occasion he rolled it on the way to a trial.
I viewed Johns BSA C15 when it was for sale, but passed the opportunity to Barrie Rodgers who kept it for several years. I think he sold it about 3 years ago
I'd change the fuel filter,check the cam belt hasn't snapped,although as it faltered when it stopped it seems unlikely,then get someone to tow you to start it.
Perhaps we could also suggest a different role for TMX.
Its not the results service it once was simply because for my own centre Gordon Imrie posts the results on a sunday evening or very early the following week. The North East report on TC is often accompnied by 100's of pictures courtesy of Hilary, Ray, Bill and Peter, before TC a north east centre trial report with a single picture was very rare in TMX.
So in my view TMX needs to move away from results and more into features such as real tests of products and bikes, interviews with riders and teams and a different kind of review based look at events from a riders perspective.
For me it would be very sad to see TMX go but its not worth buying for results, its often five days later than TC, TMX needs to move on...
and if TMX needs advertising to survive it surely needs readers
It would be interesting to see their year on year circulation figures,or "readership" figures as they prefer to call them. I believe if a readership of say 40000 is quoted,this usually equates to 10000 copies, as the circulation figure is multiplied by four,based on the assumption that one copy is read by four people.
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Where Are All The Classic Entries?
in Classic Trials
Posted
1979 was the first year-it was a closed circuit trial in those days at Camp and Warren. There were only 3 classes-
Pre 65 Four stroke under 340cc
Pre 65 Four stroke over 340cc
Pre 65 Two stroke
I seem to remember that the classes were not too popular, as it allowed BSA B40's (at 343cc) into the big capacity four stroke class,not what was intended. So,a couple of years later,1981,the capacity threshold was raised to 345cc.
All the bikes were pretty standard. On the Ariels,Ariel Leader hubs were about it..
I think Trail bikes started in 1992.