Between every trial you do that?! Usually after a power wash and dry my brake is as good as it was at the start of the trial, and if it isnt i go straight to the dousing with cold water.
I would almost certainly say its the brake cleaner you are using. Is it general automotive stuff? Ive never cleaned a brake with that and it hasnt been crap after. I think its grand for car use where theres loads of oil and brake fluid around and then followed up with lots of heat to burn whatever residue it leaves behind off, but its never left a good sharp brake on my motorbike or mountainbike. Even rubbing your fingers across it afterwards it feels slightly slippery. You would probably be better just using pure IPA
Yes, every trial. It's something I've done ever since I raced cars and karts as they were very prone to glazing when burbling back to the paddock with hot brakes. I've continued the procedure with the trials bike because I always find a film of dried mud on the face of the pads.
It's interesting that you would point your finger at the brake cleaner. The can is nearly empty so it has been used successfully quite a few times and the problem has only appeared at the last two trials. I've just re-prepped the bike and put the old pads back in so I'll see what they are like. Before the weekend I'll also have a sneaky ride down the road to check the brake beforehand.
When I had my Beta 250 (UK spec) I was tempted to do the opposite, just to find out the answer to your question. I never did though. The issue I did find with the heavy flywheel was that on up-changes the bike slowed down faster than the engine so gear changes were clunky and unsynchronised. Obviously it didn't affect trials performance but I did find it ugly.
I agree with timdog. Just one small thing to add. On slow turns using the front brake is likely to cause it to slip away from you because it is at an extreme angle to the direction of drive and is already reluctant to roll. Except on an uphill turn I would use a bit of rear brake so that the motor has to work against it all the time. That way the only thing you need to control your speed is to modulate the throttle. Otherwise you may find yourself trying to flip between a touch of throttle, then a touch of brake, and that's much more difficult.
I've recently found a problem with lack of braking power on the front of my Electric Motion. First, a little bit of background: I've had the bike for three years and this problem has just started. The front brake is a braktec monobloc. My normal procedure between trials is to abrade both pads and disc with wet'n'dry and clean with brake cleaner.
Three trials ago I fitted new Galfer red pads. For the first trial they worked fine. At both of the next two I found that the braking power was very weak. Although it was something I had never done before, and was a bit sceptical about, I rode up and down a bit with the front brake on to heat it up, then sprayed it with water. It was hot enough to hiss and generate quite a lot of steam. Thankfully this procedure seemed to get the brake working adequately but it's going to be a bit of a pain if I have to do that every trial.
Does anyone have any thoughts? Just to confirm, the hydraulics have not been disturbed and the lever feels just as firm as ever. If I don't find any other solution I think I will put back the old pads for the next trial and see if they are any better.
Has anyone noticed a change in the throttle response after switching from the magura? My impression is the domino makes the bike softer, almost like you don't quite get the full throttle. Free play is setup ok
I've forgotten how the response compares; it was a very fine difference. I just like the Domino for it's quality feel and stronger return spring.
As you say free play is OK, I assume you bought direct from an EM dealer. I bought mine (much cheaper) from a different source. Moving the pot 1 tooth wasn't enough and 2 teeth was too much I ended up going 2 teeth and trimming a bit off the closed-stop to get it right. Quite a lot of work but it's lovely now.
You can readily ride a twin shock in a normal trial, and generally you can also ride a modern bike in a classic trial (though many clubs have a minimum age for the rider). If you're starting off on the easy route, you'll find it's the same severity on both types of trial.
I think you need to be an old-bike fan to have a twin-shock or pre-65. Otherwise you just find yourself wishing for something better/newer/more modern. I had a twin-shock for a short while because it seemed the sensible thing to do as I was riding mainly classic club's trials. I quickly changed back to a modern.
Ride off. They both threed it first ride. So did they ride again? Thanks for the intel. I’m lookin forward to my FIRST TRIALS event this weekend in wisconsin. Just bought a 95 GASGAS last week
I think they rode the tie-decider section three times. I'm not sure of specific scores but Toby won. Quite an achievement without his regular minder and (presumably) his own bike.
😂😂 Are they Balance Classics ? Gaerne never reply .. In fact was chatting to importer and they don't reply to him either .. Do you speak Italiano by any chance ? 😂😂
I've no idea. I bought them six years ago because they were the only trials boot that claimed to be waterproof, which seems to me to be a fundamental requirement for trials. Sorry no parlo Italiano.
What have you done to prep them for wet weather? The wires going into the left sidecase look a little vulnerable.
Dielectric grease anywhere?
On my EM, I have dielectric grease around all the connectors that run along the top of the frame. And I've used silicone on the cover where the main power cables go into the motor. The only water problem I've had was when the primary drive breather sucked in a bit of water (and that was my fault for routing the breather too low).
Regarding dubious behaviour in slippery conditions, the owners say the grip is fabulous. There's something about electric, because the EM grips well too.
I can't get to the bike at the moment to take a photo, but the breather comes out of the clutch/primary drive cars on the right hand side just behind the motor. Peer in past the rear brake m/cyl and over the main power cables into the motor and you'll find it there. It should have a black plastic tube attached, which is long enough to lead up to somewhere near the top of the rear shock.
If you have any doubt over the clutch or it's oil, lay the bike on its side and take off the cover to have a look. It's a five minute job.
The Mecatecno is an amazing bike. Unfortunately at the moment I can't justify the upgrade cost from my present EM, but I would almost certainly go for it if I could. "Almost" because I would also test a '24 EM before making the final decision.
Yes, Mecatecno definitely needs a sub-forum on here as I posted about a year ago, but nothing has happened yet. Xispa has it's own sub-forum and I've never even seen one!
I suspect Tenaci Wong is going the same way as Xispa and Jotagas. Never quite caught the imagination enough to sell sufficient numbers to keep the importer in business. (Shame about the Jotagas as I thought it looked a really nice bike.)
It seems I'm wrong. Apparently there is a new UK importer, though the prices are nowhere what they were. Much closer to the established manufacturers.
Have a look on YouTube. There's a chap from Northern Ireland did a series of about 6 videos on preparation for the SSDT. I don't think it will answer your specific question but you will certainly gain something from it. Also look at the bike preparation advice on the Beta UK website. Even if you're not riding a Beta you'll find a lot of the information applies to any bike.
I have seen that prototype battery in motion in a 2023 EM and it is capable of doing 33km and 1300 m of elevation in a really hard trail. my vertigo 250cc needed one and a half tank to do that.
The issue of range depends on whether you are using your trials bike solely for short 3 or 4 lap trials or whether you are trail riding and/or doing things like the Scott or SSDT. For short events current EMs and Mecatecnos have more than enough battery capacity, equivalent to more than a tankful of petrol. However once you go beyond the range of a bike you find that splashing in a couple of litres of petrol is quicker and easier than recharging and much cheaper than having a spare battery. Hence there will have to be some system of reasonably priced battery hire before privateers start using electric bikes in the SSDT.
You're in the company of a lot of people, but I think it reflects a common misunderstanding. I completely understand how it's arrived at, I just don't think it takes into account some of the key aspects of trials.
For people like yourself riding easy route and without clutched maneuvers then you're probably on the money. But as soon as you start looking at maneuvers where the clutch is used it changes dramatically, even at relatively modest skill levels.
If you take something at the more extreme end of the scale, a splatter onto a big vertical say, then gearing becomes dramatically important. You want to accelerate from virtually stationary incredibly quickly in order to rotate the bike and generate lift. However you only want to accelerate to a relatively low speed (you really don't want the back wheel to hit that face at 50kmh!). So how do you accelerate super fast to a very low top speed? Answer - use a low gear. Using a high gear makes it virtually impossible to limit the top speed and extremely hard to get that really, really fast acceleration. Yes, the guns will use 2nd, 3rd & even 4th gear for some obstacles, but I believe they are selecting the gear to adjust their target top speed more than anything, which reinforces the idea that gears are really very useful. The same principle holds throughout the skill levels.
Bikes like the Pure Race and the Dragonfly with just one gear capable of 50-60kmh are massively limited in their ability to produce radically fast acceleration and low top speed.
I think there's also considerably more detail in there around why it's hard to replace a flywheel/clutch, but that's the crux of it.
I've had an electric trials with a 2-speed box, and I can absolutely say that it is dramatically different having that low 'trials' gear compared to just a single 'trail' gear.
I'm not convinced you need 4 gears, maybe 3. But making a 3 speed shifter is the same as a 4 speed except for the missing gear wheel - you might as well put in all 4 for the few extra grams.
The 17,000 rpm motor represents a massive upgrade, to my thinking. I've long thought the prevailing wisdom that trials needs a slow torquey motor is a big misunderstanding once you move beyond easy-route riding. The basis for my belief is that A. There is as yet no practical replacement for a flywheel & B. flywheels store energy proportional to the square of their RPM but directly proportional to mass & diameter, so it is vastly more efficient to spin a light flywheel fast than it is to spin a heavy flywheel slowly. All truly high performance flywheels are made from the lightest materials possible and spun as fast as possible.
There is effectively almost no difference between useable torque at the tyre from a slow motor geared down a small amount and a fast motor geared down a lot.
Overall you gain far more by spinning a fast motor than a slow one - if you have a flywheel involved.
Seeing this 17K RPM figure makes me tend to agree with @konrad that the VW logo on the bike might possibly relate to the motor? It's pretty hard to find quality motors of this power level and that sort of RPM range - pretty limited number of niche manufacturers and they tend to be astronomically high prices. So perhaps a deal with VW has given them access to a higher volume production motor at a good price? Not sure what VW would need such a motor for, but they're a massive, sprawling empire so who knows what they have in the stable. No clue, just makes me wonder.
That's an interesting point of view. I have just a couple of things to add:
1. Max speed can be limited electronically on an electric motor. It doesn't have to rely on the motor running out of revs.
2. The energy stored in a flywheel is proportional to the square of radius, not directly proportional. Hence high energy storage in a flywheel without a big overall weight penalty requires both speed and radius.
3. At my level, motor torque is enough. At TrialGP level riders clearly need a big kick from a flywheel as well as motor torque. The question is, at what skill level does the crossover occur. I would submit that it comes in at a higher level on an electric bike due to the torque characteristics v. petrol. On petrol maybe the crossover occurs between Sportsman and Clubman. With electric, between Sportsman and Expert.
Given that usable torque is available over a huge speed range, I'm still struggling to understand the benefits of a 4-speed gearbox. I would prefer to shed some weight instead. More power? I only ride on the green map anyway, and I doubt there are many people using the red at all. Personally, coming from the background of owning a '21 race and riding easy route, my wishlist would be:
Less weight
No need for a clutch, but keep the rest of the Race powertrain
More ground clearance
A way of getting a super-smooth low-power mode for tight slippery turns but also a sharp snap off the bottom to lift the front over obstacles (maybe EM-connect does that)
Better paint quality
Better fit of plastics
Better prop-stand
Lower price!
Andy used to keep the site up to date with current news. Been years since ive seen him post. As you say, theres lots of other places to get up to date news, but trialscentrals forum is unique in its own way
He last visited the forum 11 months ago, and last posted something over 3 years ago. It seems like he has lost interest. At least it's good that the website is still here, but perhaps it's time to hand over to someone else.
Re the numbers, it helps a lot if clubs provide a second number to go on the back of the helmet. The last few times I've observed I've used the Trial Observer app. Assuming I have a decent view of the front of the bike as it enters the section I tap it in immediately so I don't have to carry the number in my head.
Contemplating the purchase of rider number bibs and transfer that cost onto the rider entry fee, might be the best solution for my venue, the only riders that won't like the idea are the ones with number plates. Thought was to make different colour bibs for each rider class, that way the checkers will be clear on what line the rider is attempting without even asking.
Good solution, at a price! If you think you might get 100 riders, you'll probably need about 200 bibs so you can overlap the numbers and cover varying entries on each route. If the bibs are a fiver each, that's £1000!
This post had sunk so I forgot it and didn't update. I also have used a '22 command switch which I mounted upside-down. That puts the FRB button in a better place for my thumb, and I can live with the word 'map' being upside-down. I believe '23 switches are reversed from '22.
I've also just fitted a Domino throttle. I advances the potentiometer 2 teeth to remove the dead motion but it is a little bit too tight now, so getting it spot-on is still a work in progress.
Where Has My Friction Gone?
in General Trials Talk
Posted
Yes, every trial. It's something I've done ever since I raced cars and karts as they were very prone to glazing when burbling back to the paddock with hot brakes. I've continued the procedure with the trials bike because I always find a film of dried mud on the face of the pads.
It's interesting that you would point your finger at the brake cleaner. The can is nearly empty so it has been used successfully quite a few times and the problem has only appeared at the last two trials. I've just re-prepped the bike and put the old pads back in so I'll see what they are like. Before the weekend I'll also have a sneaky ride down the road to check the brake beforehand.