What is so difficult to save one sheet of paper? Many people have so many so in detail going advices how to handle this and that to their bikes that is near an ideology. But can't save one sheet of paper that is something I can not undestand.
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But it doesn't prove anything. With a modern PC and software I can create an invoice for anything you want with a pretend company in seconds. What is needed is a proper registration scheme and most governments run one for road machines. Even then a lot of vehicles are stolen and sold on with false documents.
Never buy bikes without any documentation or "papers" like bill of sale, even a not road registered bike had once a bill of sale with a serial number, period.
I fear then that very very few bikes would ever change hands. I doubt I can find the receipt for my bike and the missus' was without any paperwork off eBay. I would now be unable to sell them.
Will fit a br6es then and try that. My plug is exactly like the plug in the photo where the heat range is too high. One step down on the plug with all other variables such as fuel and carb kept the same will be an interesting experiment.
My missus' Evo 250 runs a BR5ES. It is what was in the bike when we bought it. I researched a bit on here as I also read the manual and it says a 7 heat value. I found a post that suggested 5 was better for a "cold climate". No idea if that is right or not. However the bike still has the same plug in it and has run 2 years without any issues at all. Never had the plug out to look at it if I am honest. It runs on V-Power 99 and Putoline TT Pro at a 80:1 mix or thereabouts. Starts first kick (well with me - wife takes a few more prods). Can't fault the engine (suspension is pants and the brakes not so hot either) I bought a spare plug and bought a 5 just in case the 7 made it harder to start. (After research it seems to me the starting has nothing to do with the heat value - so I have learned something in the process)
There appears to be some effect with prolonged contact but it seems unlikely that most trials bikes would be affected. Really old bikes have brass carb floats and so on and metal tanks so are almost certainly fine. I think there is a lot of nonsense in circulation about this subject. All the same I will stick to my E5 V-Power the bike runs better with the higher octane rating. Interestingly in the US E85 is used as a very high octane fuel for racing cars.
US ethanol is mostly made from Maize (corn) mostly to subsidise and prop up the dreadful US agrigulture industry that is heavily into GM Maize. The farming lobby is powerful in the US and definately looking for government money from any source. Of course the oil lobby groups don't want your car to run on maize but on fossil oil so the two lobby groups fight one another. What the optimum level of ethanol might be for the vehicle and for the planet is not really part of the considerations.
The super Esso is E5 that is why it says so. I also started to research this as the missus has a Ducati Monster and there was (and still is) a lot of BS on the internet about some bikes - the Monster being one - that don't run on E10. Firstly the Monster runs OK on E10 and has had several tankfuls of it. Second a lot of what one reads on the internet is written by nutters and climate change deniers, conspiracy theorists and so on. That is why a lot of it starts in the US.
As best I can see the issue is that ethanol attracts water in a way that mineral based petrol does not. There appears to be actual science behind that and so it is probably true. For some materials, notably fibreglass that can be an issue. Fibreglass is a stupid material to make fuel tanks from and after a short time manufacturers stopped using it. Sadly (for us trials enthusiasts) the old Montesa had a fibre tank and was a good bike in every other respect.
I have read plastic can "expand" due to ethanol or the water in it. I am unsure how that happens as plastic does not expand in water nor does it expand when exposed to ethanol. Virtually all modern vehicles have plastic tanks. The Ducati (and my TRS) have plastic tanks. If the claim was true why does the incremental increase from 5% to 10% have the effect? Surely the ethanol would have the same effect at any percentage big enough and 5 percent should be big enough?
I have read that ethanol causes "deposits" on some surfaces. It does not as it is a volatile liquid. Or that it "melts" some components. It is easy to disprove these claims by immersing them in ethanol.
If there really is a problem it would appear to me that it is the water issue. For us trials bike owners that is probably made worse by storing fuel in cans and in sheds. So it really makes some sense to avoid the issue by using a lower percentage (E5) fuel and this is fortunate that higher octane fuels are E5. Aspen has no ethanol but is 95 octane so too low for most bikes like my TRS. I have no idea where one would buy high octane Aspen (I think it is called "racing"?) Let's be honest no one does bar a few oddballs. So we have to deal with the reality that we will have to use E5. Since the racing world continues and thousands of people ride bikes throughout the world with no problems I feel it is fair to say there is not really an issue unless you have a vintage machine.
At present (as best I see) in the UK the E10 is only normal (95) unleaded. All the higher octane ratings are E5. The whole debate about ethanol is largely nonsense and the idea it is a problem is much over estimated for anyone with a modern (post 1980s) bike. Both the TRS and Beta I have ran badly on the old 95 E5 fuel and certainly the TRS seems much better on 99. So I use Shell V Power and it is still E5. I honestly doubt if the higher octane ratings fuels increase their ethanol it would have any effect on the bikes if I am honest. So I would suggest any issues you have are from the octane rating rather than the formulation of the petrol.
My view is that the cheaper end is overpriced compared to what it was. I agree totally with the post above, I also think it is likely to be a long wait for any change - if you have an old bike it is now worth more than you paid for it and people like that idea.
Bikes three or less years old are not as bad. It is harder to get the higher price when a brand new bike is an alternative possibilty. (I have seen Beta Alp at more than new prices to overcome the waiting list though)
If you can manage to get the budget buy the newer bike and you have a fair chance it will hardly depreciate as it ages.
Most tyre manufacturers suggest 50psi as maximum to seat a bead. At 100 or so there is a real risk of the rim failing. Lots of tyre soap and be gentle. Sometimes you can leave the tyre a few minutes and it will "creep" into position. Anything over 60psi and you seriously need to be in another building to the tyre.
...I’m thinking I may just go for a look around this time. I doubt I’m going to get to have decent go in the bike before then and I think I might like to get to know it a bit first just in case!
Thanks for your input yet again. I have, however, finally agreed a purchase on a bike this afternoon! It’s a 2008 Beta Rev in really nice nick from the look of it. Can’t say too much more until I get my grubby mits on it physically but it’s sensible money and I’m pretty excited about it. Hopefully I’ll have it early part of next week
Cool. I hope it is OK. The post above pretty much covers all the issues. I found the rear tyre rubbed a bit on the silencer can and that was a common problem IIRC. If the can is good just make sure it is spaced a little away from the wheel with a longer bolt and some washers. Again there is some good info in the old posts on the Beta forum.
Feed it well with good clean fresh petrol and a top end oil - they don't use much so cheap crap is false economy. Nano Trans in the gearbox will help with the clutch stick too.
We bought a Rev 3 to share (me and missus). After a short while she hogged it all the time and so I bought the TRS. We upgraded her to the Evo shortly after. Apart from the issue of spares the main difference I notice with the Evo is it has better handling. The Rev needed fork compression to get the front wheel up and the Evo is much easier IMHO.
Now to be 120% fair it is possible that the additional time and practice just mean I ride better and I am being unfair to the older bike. There is a guy at our club has a Rev 3 and rides very well so the bike certainly is capable.
The real issue IMHO is the older the bike the more people have "repaired" it and so the more it is likely to be defective somehow. I am sure if you find a good, well looked after Rev 3 it will be better than a neglected Evo, but the odds are not in your favour. Our shared bike had a sawn up nail in the Mikuni carb to stop the flooding (read the Beta forum about that carb). Also the cold stick on the clutch was worse on the Rev. Not reasons to avoid one but just my experiences with the older bike.
How are you getting the wheel to lift at present? With a powerful 280cc engine the bike should lift the front wheel without any compression of the forks or any real effort at all. Just lean back a little to put your weight over the back axle and let the clutch out. You should be able to lift the front enough to go over a smallish obstacle from standing.
Using the acceleration to lift will tend to get you to increase the throttle as the wheel lifts in the way you describe.
Thank you Chris! As you said to me before really …. Decision made. Just curiosity getting the better of me. Advice taken, modern bike it is 😀
Cool. I can only add that I wish you every bit of luck possible in finding something nice at a good price. I also started on a 15 hundred budget and ended up with the TRS (£3,600) It has been a good purchase for me. There are still some nails about even at that price though.
...Do u want to learn the skills ? Buy as new as possible.
This a thousand times. When you can ride really well then buy an old twin shock or similar (as well as the new bike) to entertain you and you will be able to ride it well.
I’m just under 13 stone…. Do you find the 125 has enough power? To be honest, I’m getting brain ache thinking about all the options and working out what prices are fair and and which bikes are overpriced…. I just want to get a bike and get stuck in! I’m probably over thinking it, it’s starting to do my head in a bit……🙄
If you have not ridden in trials before how can you know what is the "right" bike for you? If you ask other people they will tell you what is "right" for them and perhaps offer an opinion about "right" for you without meeting you or knowing you or ever seeing you ride any other bike.
In your first post you said you had had bike for years (like me). I assume therefore you know to pull in the clutch and press the back brake and generally control a motorcycle? You know that the throttle will slow the engine down as well as speed it up? Yes, of course you do. A trials bike is no different in its controls than a road bike. A litre sportsbike is a handful on the road if you are not capable and confident. If you let your enthusiasm get the better of you a decent 250cc road bike will kill you. I honestly don't see any difference with trials machines. You need some experience to handle the more powerful bikes and (just like road bikes) the highest power (300cc) is almost certainly far more than you need.
A 250cc trials bike from a mainstream brand - Beta, TRS, GasGas etc - will be fine for you and if (for some weird reason) you don't like it someone else will and you can sell it again easily. A 125cc is powerful enough but you need to rev it a bit harder (just like a small capacity road bike).
Try to find something that is not an overpriced heap of junk that will take another handful of money to put right a fortnight after you buy it. Some old nail that pre covid would have been 200 notes and now is "a classic" at 15 hundred. There are plenty such money pits for sale on eBay right now. Whatever make, whatever cc, whatever year of manufacture the biggest challenge for you is your budget is not enough to move you out of the overpriced tat zone. The more you find it hard to buy anything half decent the more you will be tempted to buy some old junk that will need fixing.
So in honesty, I would be much more worried about getting a good bike that will run OK and is in a good state of repair than worry about the brand or capacity.
When I first started looking you could get a decent Rev 3 for a grand. We traded ours in for £750 (2006 model) against the Evo (2104 £2300). The old Rev would now fetch the 15 hundred you quote and the Evo is probably now worth more than we paid for it three years ago.
I bought the TRS for £3600 (2017) and it too is probably the same sort of money now from a dealer. (Bought from Lee & Sons)
Personally I would cough a bit at paying nearly two grand for a 10 plus year old bike unless it was one of the "collectable" twin shocks. They too seem to be bonkers money now.
As you say things were well cheap a few years back - I remember that too. So far on the TRS I have spend £25 for a wheel bearing replacement and that's it bar consumables. The carb has been off a few times and was mis-seated last time so the float bowl is wearing away and I have bought a new one for next time it is off, but that is hardly the bike's fault. The brakes are fantastic and lock the wheels up with the lightest touch, the clutch is easy and smooth and the power is not overwhelming for my very meagre talents. I have little doubt that other brands are as good. It was more than I wanted to spend but cannot say I regret it at all now.
UK bike prices have gone bonkers past lockdown. Whatever you look at will be much more than it was two years ago. I am seeing Rev3 on eBay at prices that are quite hard to understand if I am honest. Good as they are they are still old bikes that someone else will have beaten the crap out of over many years.
I had to try not to think about it too much as I put the PIN in when I paid for the TRS, but to be fair it was a better purchase than the missus' Evo in terms of what work has been needed. If it is at all possible I would look round for a newer bike and grit your teeth and just accept that is the price.
Our club generally has a mix of old and new at most meetings. I don't think having a new or old bike would really restrict you much in terms of getting a ride.
If you like fixing bikes, hunting auto jumbles for parts and machining up components you cannot buy any more than by all means get into older stuff. My dad was a mechanic and would have enjoyed all that stuff. I know people that do. If you want to ride, buy a new bike.
My missus put her Beta through a fence when first learning. My TRS spat me off the back when I first bought it. Both those bikes have a device on the right hand side of the bars that you need to learn to control a bit better 😎
There's a bloke at our club who is 70 odd and new to the sport. I don't think age is much to do with anything.
Buy what will give you the most fun. If you like fixing stuff fair play - buy something that will need frequent fixing. From my limited recent experience with trials and having had bikes in general for nearly 50 years I would go for something like the TRS 250 One or the Beta Evo 250 as a start point. I don't get the 125cc thing - they will scare you if you rev them hard enough same as the 250s.
I "might" to to an outdoor/traditional round, definitely not a stadium. Maybe an age thing .....
I doubt age is the issue, more what a person's interests are. I like the X-Trial and would go to see it if the venue was near enough, but I would happily go watch the "traditional" trial as well. X-Trial is designed to be entertaining and a spectacle. I am sure most that watch it do not ride. What I cannot understand is why X-Trial is so popular elsewhere and not UK.
The world trial at Cahors was an indoor in effect with 8 man made sections. We can criticise this but with riding in streams banned in many countries it sadly may be the future.
Once you get local authorities involved environmental issues will be more of an obstacle. Local trials are under the radar but once you need Local Authority permission for traffic and spectators it gets more difficult.
To me, if I am honest, that cuts both ways. Sure the 'traditional' outdoor is a better event (and surely there is a way round the possible contamination of waterways issue?) but bringing things into an indoor stadium with artificial obstacles increases the potential venues.
Either there are enough people here in the UK that would pay to see it or there are not. I can't decide. I would pay but that doesn't tell you anything much - only about me.
I have just cancelled my hotel booking for the event. For me it was a tough decision to go because it is a long long drive up and so half the weekend is in the car not watching the riders. To build on @baldilocks point why not have the event in the South? (I know, I know - howls of protest from the northerners - sorry chaps) The advantage of the higher population density and larger number of people potentially interested is worth a debate. I think perhaps there are more people as a percentage interested in trials in the more northern parts of the country, but more numerically in the south. If the issue is getting a return on the time and investment for the organisers then does the south not make more sense?
I can tell by evidence that E10 is not so good storeable anymore, before with ethanol free gas or fuel with "just" 5% ethanol I could store fuel in containers from 5L onwards over the winter, now if heavy frost is involved (we get -20 deg) it dissolves, change smell, and creating and gelantinous deposit even with chemicals for longer storage.
Everything I have read suggests that the Ethanol absorbs water and that is the main problem. I think your experience shows this to be true. Diesel suffers microbial growth if there is too much bio content.
My road bike is stored under cover and in a warehouse where it does not freeze. I have no issues with the fuel in it. If you are storing in sub-zero conditions i think it might be wise to empty the tank or put a small amount of Aspen in just for the winter. (I once left a VFR for a long time and it gelled up - pre Ethanol fuel at the time)
I would appreciate any feedback on the effect of the two stroke oil in the cold. (In E10)
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But it doesn't prove anything. With a modern PC and software I can create an invoice for anything you want with a pretend company in seconds. What is needed is a proper registration scheme and most governments run one for road machines. Even then a lot of vehicles are stolen and sold on with false documents.