Has anyone noticed any performance differences with oil ratio?
I ask as this afternoon we have been for a couple of hours practice and I mixed some 100:1 just for the TRS. I don't normally bother and mix about 80:1 (12ml in 1L) for both my bike and the wife's Beta. The old petrol in the tank was the previous 80ish mix and this was unusual for me. The bike had gone onto reserve so mixed 1.5L at 100 specifically for the TRS and filled it up. I noticed (well I think I did) it was more responsive and ran more "crisp".
Does this make sense or am I just imagining it? The change was more or less instant.
As background, this is a new to me bike. The current high price of old bikes gave me a cracking trade in deal on my old '17 280RR so bought a '22 250RR couple of weeks back. The old 280 I had always run on the 80ish mixture and it was OK. This 250 was a bit sluggish compared to the old bike but I figured it is smaller cc so that is why. (Still far more than I need).
I guess - if you "take a chance" - it will be down to the individual copper that stops you. Some are OK, many are not. Some hate motorbikes of any type. Some care about crime and might be interested to see if the bike is stolen as it falls outside of their normal experiences. Some will be just plain wrong and try to pinch you for no lights or some other issue.
Personally I would try to fit a proper full size plate and use a bracket that can be removed easily when you get to the off road bit. I found a bracket that did that on ebay, but it was a bit cheap and cheerful so not very good. Maybe fabricate something?
There is no precedent, precedent is set by an outcome of a court case,..
Correct. The same applies to loud exhuasts on road bikes. A lot of riders think some sort of high volume pipes "sound nice". Maybe to some of us they do, but there is aftermarket BSI stamped kit and there is taking the p***. A Milwaukee tractor was at the lights near me a few weeks back and I thought it would shatter the windows in the van. Pretty much a straight through chrome tube. Its halfwits like that who drive the legislation to stop bikes altogether. The new anti-tampering laws will go through to stop idiots like that HD rider.
How trials bikes can be road legal if you cannot "tamper" and fit a number plate will be interesting....
"every motor vehicle shall be fitted with a speedometer which, if the vehicle is first used on or after 1st April 1984, shall be capable of indicating speed in both miles per hour and kilometres per hour,"
Hmph. I have just left my carb at the shop for an ultrasound clean and did not think about the fuel cap. Quite a bit on the AV link (thanks Steve). On the plus side I found the throttle cable needed replacing. Also in fairness to the man at the shop he suggested checking the fuel cap and tap filter.
One is basic. One R is same engine but upgraded suspension. RR is top of the range motor and suspension. So the One R is the downgraded motor but with the better forks and shock that you are looking for. I have the RR (280cc - 2017) and don't find it too much so it might be worth a test ride if you can get one. I have read that the newer (than mine) bikes are slightly different in terms of the engine response. The main thing seems to be the carb (Dell Orto vs Keihin)
Fit new ones. My wife's 2014 Evo had a poor front brake and I have replaced the master cylinder with a braktec (like on the new Beta factory) the disc with a Galfer and a full rebuild of the old Grimeca caliper. The brake is now as good as my TRS (braktec). I think the braktec caliper would probably fit as well if you want to go the whole hog, but it would need a new brake line as the banjo is a different size.
Yeah , fair enough , might be nothing in it , but I'm not taking the risk unless it's necessary .
I have used E10 in my bikes and ancient car when I couldn't get E5 , however I tried to get them filled with E5 before I left them for any length of time .
There is some fuel stabiliser thing you can buy that is kinder to rubber seals ?. Is it worth buying , i don't know .
There are a range of fuel stabilisers available. The idea seems to be that when you leave ethanol/petrol mixes for a long time there are problems. Since ethanol absorbs water there is some logic to this, but all the things I have seen somewhat gloss over that or emphasise things that do not seem to happen. Aspen is designed specifically for long term stability and storage and is sold by garden machinery places where you leave fuel for a period of time. All I can offer is my own experience of the mower which has no problems at all and sits all winter in a shed.
I am sure there are some features of ethanol mixes that need to be understood but the huge amount of drivel just reminds me of the same nonsense over unleaded. I think you are sensible to use an E5 if you know the vehicle is going to be stood for a long time - I would probably do the same to be honest. My road bike runs E10 and I really don't give it any thought at all, but it is under cover and in the dry when not in use. All petrol will gel if you leave it long enough. I had a VFR that did it years ago. Petrol goes "stale" too and it can make it hard to start the engine, but you really shouldn't leave engines that long - they need a run now and then and for vehicles with a battery that needs a start up to charge from time to time. Thermostats can stick if left too long. Really any petrol engine needs a warm up and a run at least once a month in my opinion and past experience.
Been told the rubber seals can swell when using E10 ?
Might be incorrect , but a guy showed me a fuel pump assembly and the big rubber gasket was miles oversize due to what was described as E10 fuel .
The problem is that so much of what is circulating is opinion, not fact and a lot of the opinion has a basis only in nonsense. Ethanol attracts water and as such can cause some materials to have issues with swelling. There are lots of sorts of "rubber". It is therefore really important if you want the truth and an objective fact based decision of what fuels to use in what engines to get to the details. The easy way out is the lazy way and just blame E10 for everything and you will find no shortage of people that want to do that. Logically if ethanol is giving problems then E5 is going to be problematic but slightly less so. The shift from 5% to 10% is not going to give rise to a lot of the problems that are being attributed to it.
We have had E5 for a very long time and it is only the increase to 10 that has seen the nonsense start. A simple answer therefore is to stick to an E5 fuel which has a higher octane rating and a lower percentage of ethanol. If that has worked OK up until now it will continue to do so. The higher octane is neither here nor there and works fine. My lawnmower runs on Shell V Power because it is what I buy for the trials bikes and so it is what is in the can so it is what I put in the mower. I am too lazy and disinterested to buy seperate lawmower fuel to save 50p a year.
The majority of people are not even aware that unleaded has changed and just fill the car up like they have for years. As best I can see there is no epidemic of cars failing as a result, in fact there appears to be no issue whatsoever. The doom mongers predictions of the need to replace fule lines and pumps wholesale has not happened. But - of course - plenty of Internet reports of "a mate" who has had a problem.
I find it hard to believe a modern bike like a Vertigo would be manufactured with materials that are incompatible with petrol from a filling station and therefore require specialist fuel that is all but unobtainable anywhere. Such a difficult bike to refuel would be unlikley to find much of a market. I have a few friends that have Vertigo and none of them buy fuel mail order, none use Aspen or other specialist fuels. They all buy at the filling station. My TRS runs on V Power which is E5. The manual says "no ethanol" but it runs on E5 and has done since it was new in 2017, so five years of ethanol have done it no harm.
The Ducati forums were full of cranks and crackpots that predicted the end of the world with E10 and it fooled me enough to research it. Meantime the wife's Monster runs just fine on E10. I don't have a Vertigo but do like them and I am thinking about it as next bike. I am pretty sure it will be OK on the V Power that the TRS runs on. The wife's Beta likes the high octane rating too. Not sure I can actually see a problem here.....
...Are the two strokes really so bad on pistons? ..
Like you I read the manual and thought that a new piston was a routine thing. All I can say is that this does not seem to be the reality. You can buy aftermarket "long life" pistons (https://s3parts.com/en/49-piston- ) if you do need to actually change one, but it seems unlikely you will.
The Beta 250 2T is a very popular bike in the UK. My missus has one and it is OK. I have a TRS and I think it is better for a number of reasons. I know a couple of friends that have Honda/Montesa and they tell me the maintenance is not really any better than a two stroke. Nice bikes though.
Best value for money IMPO is about 2-3 year old bikes. If it has not been beaten up on rocks then you get a decent modern bike at a good saving on new price. If you find you don't like it or want to change to try something else you will not lose much on it. Older bikes (like the wife's Beta - 2014) are fine but you will need to spend on them. I have completely replaced the front brake on hers as the old one was rubbish. My (2017) TRS has the better braktec unit. All I have done with the TRS so far is new chain and sprockets and it now needs linkage doing after 3 years (me) riding. I could probably sell it at the same as I bought it less a couple of hundred.
Our old Rev went through a number of seals at a similar pace. I asked about this and was advised to fit the GKN seals. These are the green ones. They were no trouble. The new Evo has had two seals replaced but again no trouble after that. The cheap seals off ebay were a few pounds versus the green ones at nearly 30 quid. If your seals are not genuine GKN then they will almost certainly not last very long.
How can you be making a mistake? If you find a trial too tough just stop. If you are enjoying it crack on. Worst case you have wasted 20 quid. Couple of 70+ in our club and they all ride well. None of us grey haired old blokes are going to challenge Bou but we can have a nice day out. My club just ran an open charity trial which was great fun, I only did about half of it but so what? Not like there is a million pound prize money to be won.
What would be the difference between the TRS and the Evo with regards to manners?
I can only draw on the experience of my wife's Evo and my TRS. The Evo brakes are less good and the bike is a bit gutless compared to my 280. She (the OH) loves the Beta and finds it "perfect". She has been a road rider for a long time but no off road. (Current bike Ducati monster, last bike CBR600RR)
The extra power of the TRS means it climbs on much less throttle compared to her smaller Evo. Beyond that they are both good trials bikes capable of far far more than either of the riders. My bike spat me off the back the first time I rode it and was a big step up from the Rev3. It took a couple of hours but the engine only revs as far as you turn the throttle and the drive stops turning the wheel if you pull the clutch in. I've got very used to it now and love it. Still scares me if you go over a big obstacle and give it too much, but that's just me - crap.
.... There's nothing 'wrong' with my Rev3 but it was never intended as a long term bike, just something cheap enough but modern enough to dip a toe in - and now I'm up to my waist, so I want something I'll stick with longer that's not so obsolete. ...
LOL. My TRS is 2017 and I am nearly as bad as you at hanging my nose over something else. (I look at ebay more or less every day - passes the time at work.....)
If I were you I would look at something that will last you as you improve so more like the TRS One R 250. The Beta is not a bad bike but you should look at the 250 and a newish one. If they "push" you a bit that's not a bad thing IMHO. A motorcycle is not a camel it cannot "get away from you" - you're just riding it badly.
It's a man thing. New hobby - do it two weeks - buy a million quid's worth of new kit. Get bored 6 months later.
Ride the Rev - work on your skills. Stop looking for a new one. I would bet you a tenner if you buy a Beta 200 you will be shopping round for something else in 18 months. Use your power of obsession to obsess about balance not bikes.
We had a 250 Rev 3 and the missus upgraded to an Evo 250. (I looked for a 250 TRS but had to buy a 280 as that was all I could get at the time). The Evo is not fundamentally different in my view - I found the front a bit lighter and it lifts easier than the Rev, but then I have got more skilled (ha ha did I really write that??) so it could just be that. The TRS is a much much better bike but you need to be a bit gentle with it. I got used to it after a few rides and the Evo now seems gutless by comparison.
Just back from a ride this afternoon in the mud. There were over 60 riders and as many bikes as you can think of. Several Evo 200s. My mate has an old Rev 3 and still rides rings round me. Missus has big smile and had a great day (but then it is muggins that gets the cleaning task). One of the best riders on an AJP trail bike with lights and winkers!
Ny all means get a new bike - we all are big kids and want a new toy, but it really is not going to make much odds to be honest. The reason we upgraded was the Rev 3 rear shock is discontinued and the exhaust rubs the back tyre. The Evo is a nicer bike for sure but not mega different unless you are shelling out big time for a 2-3 year old factory.
FWIW the Rev had better brakes than the Evo. The braktec units of the TRS (and most other brands) are light years better. The diaphragm clutch is nice too. By all means get an Evo but soon you will want a TRS 😁
Here's a few easy upgrades that would improve an already very good bike for the better. (Just my opinion).
..
They all sound sensible to me. The one big thing I noticed between the wife's Beta and my TRS were the brakes. Maybe it is just the Beta was an old bike (2014) and the components were worn out? However, I have now fitted the braktec master and Galfer disc and pads to the bike and it is transformative. The TRS is still a bit better but not really enough to make any issue of. The Beta now has one finger braking and very good modulation.
I have never riden the Factory version of the Beta but it has the braktec master so might be pretty decent.
I agree with you about the forks and shock. Maybe go to the M4 fork and leapfrog the other brands? Just going to 39mm would give owners the option without a new yoke and a lot of grief with the wheel and so on. I plan to replace the rear shock later this year - secondhand bike prices make it sensible to upgrade the components rather than change the whole bike. The missus wants an Electric Motion next time if we can get a test ride and afford the deal.
For a load bearing task I agree with the tow bar fitter - go for a fixed flange bar. Detachable bars are designed to take a pulling load. The Oset is lighter than a full bike but you are probably near the nose weight limit with the Oset and the rack.
Jon I'm wondering if the "ELF Indoor Racing Fuel" (which we can get here) is as good as the Aspen (which we can't get here) for people's health because apparently that ELF fuel is designed to reduce the toxicity of the exhaust fumes when indoor racing karts and MX bikes.
TRS Oil Fuel Ratio
in TRS
Posted
Has anyone noticed any performance differences with oil ratio?
I ask as this afternoon we have been for a couple of hours practice and I mixed some 100:1 just for the TRS. I don't normally bother and mix about 80:1 (12ml in 1L) for both my bike and the wife's Beta. The old petrol in the tank was the previous 80ish mix and this was unusual for me. The bike had gone onto reserve so mixed 1.5L at 100 specifically for the TRS and filled it up. I noticed (well I think I did) it was more responsive and ran more "crisp".
Does this make sense or am I just imagining it? The change was more or less instant.
As background, this is a new to me bike. The current high price of old bikes gave me a cracking trade in deal on my old '17 280RR so bought a '22 250RR couple of weeks back. The old 280 I had always run on the 80ish mixture and it was OK. This 250 was a bit sluggish compared to the old bike but I figured it is smaller cc so that is why. (Still far more than I need).
Any opinions welcome - new one on me.