Looking at the fixture list for the 2018 ACU Classic Cup it seems the series has just one trial. Is there an alternative for those of us with a pre65 who prefer a single lap road based trial?
How about the MCC's trials? Around 200-300 miles for the event, and often a ride to the start on Friday night, and back home again on the Sunday. Mostly on the road but with a few lanes to get to the sections, about half of which are done in the dark. Smallest bike I've done one on is a Beta Alp 200. The ride back from Cornwall after the Land's End on Easter Sunday is a tradition . I wouldn't want to ride one on a modern trials bike though.
I have one and no issues with the bike. No significant mods needed. I've tried a few other bikes over the years and come back again to the Sherco 250. The only bike I'd even consider as an alternative is the new Scorpa - looks more or less the same bike except the frame surrounds the radiator and the fuel tank is in the more conventional spot.
I remember when GasGas came into the U.S. market their bikes were priced under the competition. Not an unusual plan to take market share. In response the other manufacturers tried to compete on price. That causes an across the board downward pressure that is actually destructive to the sport. The argument that a lower price point brings more riders in seems logical on the surface but when you dig deeper it means insufficient profit for the factories to survive. Depressed used bike prices which slows turnover of new bikes so long term fewer dealers can make a go of it. And eventually failure of some brands that has to result in an increase of bike prices back to a more normal level.
This isn't just a new phenomenon. Trials is cyclical. The same thing happened with the influx of cheaper two stokes in Sammy Miller's day and the influx of cheaper Japanese machines in the 70's. Being a small market trials tends to feel the effects of any disruption more keenly than the rest of the market. Some manufacturers learned to be very careful not to play the game. Honda is a prime example. No one ever argued the Honda was too cheap. If anyone has the economy of scale to make a cheaper bike it's Honda but they looked at the cost structure and said here's what we must sell them for.
GasGas has to raise prices to survive. That will allow other brands to follow suit. I think in the long run paying another 10% for a new bike to have a healthy sport will be well worth it and riders will get that back in resale anyway. I do hope GasGas survives and has learned the strategy of, "We're losing money on each part but don't worry we'll make it up in volume." Usually doesn't end well.
That’s a really good analysis Dan, both in terms of emphasising the cyclic nature of this market and in terms of looking at the strategy the manufacturers pursue.
I started trials in the early 80s and of the manufacturer’s around then only Beta - just starting out in trials at the time, and Montesa - a brand of Honda for a long time, remain.
But what your post illustrates to me, comparing the bikes available in the early 80s to what’s available now, is that there is little differentiation in the market. Only Honda offer something really different at present to the rest - that is selling on the quality of their product with a higher showroom price - both factors that help to make your product more attractive. Don’t think so on the showroom price? Why do folks buy a Rolex when a Casio will still tell them the time?
What is playing out here, yet again, is a market driven by cost and hyper-competition - most of the bikes available new are broadly similar in terms of product features and most cost about the same. It could be argued that this is bad for both the manufacturers and the consumer. The manufacturers don’t have much to increase their sales over the competitors, and they and their importers and dealers may not survive if they don’t maintain their market share. The consumers don’t have much choice because most of the bikes are similar. So hats of to the likes of OSSA, JTG and now Vertigo for trying to build a product that’s a little bit different. There are other ways they could differentiate themselves - for example by selling a brand rather than just a bike, but as far as I know, as far as off-road bikes go, only KTM have made that work of late, and they’ve had to play a long game to do it.
How can a stall (engine off) not be a 5 and given a zero................beggars belief in a 'No Stop' ruling
Every club trial, you'd get a 5 and make no mistake
Let's see BOU ride that one, in 2015
I've not seen the WTC rules but in 2014 ACU TSRs for non-stop engine stopping alone doesn't mean a failure and for stop allowed doesn't mean a failure provided only the tyres and no other part of the bike nor the rider is touching the ground.
Be great to see Bou in the SSDT - isn't it about time?
Thank you both (I'll collect the prize for missing the obvious ).
I moved the fastener to the rearmost of the three holes - chain still in one piece, properly adjusted and loads of adjustment left. Relief not to have to bother with half links.
I fitted a new Regina chain, 100 links long, to my 2014 4RT two or three trials ago. It has 9/41 gearing. The problem is the chain now appears to be too long. I realise new chains often stretch at first but it's only done a few trials so I wouldn't expect it to be worn out yet. Anyone know if it's possible to go to 98 links or would this be too short?
Apart from getting generally fit, anyone any recommendations on getting 'bike fit' erm, without using the bike? Winter evenings rule out mid-week practice.
Suggested options so far range from mountain biking to yoga.
I was wondering if using a trials bicycle would do the trick.
I'am looking for any advices about almost new 4rt 260 montesa regarding what should I check to determine the reason when the engine cannon start after kicks or downhill on the 4th gear.
2 days ago i've removed all the restrictions following the manual except the chain and wheel's sprocket. Today I've been riding for almost 3 hours nonstop in our local forest. Suddenly the engine stops while riding on the 4th gear. I tried to kick - no results. Tried to kick with full throttle, then without - no result. Tried to roll down a hill and off the clutch on 4th - the engine doesn't want to start. I checked fuel and disconnected stop button too. Fuel level was about 1 lt. Compression seems as always good. There are no any visual troubles, liquid leaks, broken wires. Tomorrow will be an appointment in a common motorcycle service, they don't know precisely this bike. Hence, it is better to ask the community about any weak spots of the bike.
What should we check at first? What can be broken? Obviously, we will check the spark and plug.
Could you recommend me what can I check further? Thanks!
Andrey
Hi Andrey,
I believe from your previous post you've converted from 'road' to 'racing' spec. So the first thing I would do (painful as it may sound) is go through the conversion procedure again to double check it was all done correctly.
As an owner of a 2014 4RT I'm still figuring the gripping ability out.
The only problem I've found grip-wise is with greasy (grass-free) steep banks with no run up. This is based on experience in recent trials. That said this isn't consistent - in a recent trial I fived one section with such an obstacle the first three laps then cleaned it on the last lap. All of which implies it's all down to the rider. A local expert, long-time 4RT mounted, advised me to give the 4RT 6 months to get used to it.
But I'll be trying a 42T rear sprocket tomorrow (can't remember what I have on the front but it's one tooth down from stock) then switching from the stock Dunlops to Xlites in a few weeks time. Also considering a fast-action throttle.
I also did a comparison with my mate's new Sherco 300 after my last trial - found it much better in terms of grip, causing me to question my purchase (I had a Sherco previously). But then on the same section in the trial I did better than he did on my 4RT, and he's the better rider. Like I said, still figuring it out.
Now that there are a few new 4rts about has anybody got a back to back comparison of an old 4rt compared to the new models. Are they better, same or just different. Anybody got any inside info on the engine braking reduction. I've heard this can be done to older models. Is this a software mod or hardware mod. Evidently nothing obviously mechanically different. Is engine braking a bad thing or has it been done to help people switch from 2t
I understand that the reduction is done using a valve in the crankcase, though I've not yet spotted it on my 260. I'll try and do a back-to-back with a 250 when I get the chance, probably at the next trial or practice. There doesn't seem to be much difference in engine braking between the 260 and my previous 2T bike.
Thank you so much for posting these - this excellent forum is like a re-born Ralph Remembers (which I always used to read every Friday, despite not being born in 1965).
What is interesting is that the MCC events are still very similar to how they were when first run (earliest was the London to Edinburgh in 1904) and haven't evolved in quite the same way trials in general have. To the best of my knowledge, with their overnight format, they're unique.
Brian and Doug Sarney were competing when I first started but I don't think they've entered for a few years now.
Celia still competes and will be in this year's Land's End in a Reliant three-wheeler.
I know Ian Rennie quite well, usually having a chat with him in the early hours of Easter Saturday on the MCC Land's End Trial. Do you have any photos of MCC events for another thread?
Quick update on the 4RT - it's taken a while (3 trials and 2 practice sessions) to get used to it after my last bike - a 2010 Sherco 250, which was a great bike - and at the last practice session I could do everything I could do on the Sherco.
Plus points: Handling I would describe as neutral - neither quick nor slow. It seems very stable and well balanced with great suspension. I haven't owned a 4RT before and I've been surprised at what's available in the motor - seems very powerful and clean (not surprising given the fuel injection) and makes a nonsense of most obstacles (in the scope of my level of ability - mid-ranking clubman) no matter how slowly you approach them. I was a bit concerned about the grip but it seems fine, even in the mud we get in this part of the world. It consistently starts at about 3rd kick from cold and first kick when warm. I say kick but it's more a case of spinning the motor, softly. Mechanically speaking I haven't laid a finger on it since new apart from fitting a smaller front sprocket. It's clear Honda/Montesa have put a lot of effort into making the bike 'rideable' - which IMHO it is, very much so.
I bought the bike from St. Blazey MX - service from them has been excellent throughout.
Criticisms? Only thing that's annoyed me is the side stand. Either there's a knack to making it stand up (?) or I'm buying an aftermarket one.
Hi, I observed the SSDT last year and remember you on your OSSA. Well done for having another shot - can't imagine an environment much different from Kenya - and I hope you've been busy getting bike fit :-)
Just picked up my new 4RT, the standard model. Very pleased with it - nothing to fault. Having come from a Sherco I can feel the extra weight but it isn't excessive, and it will certainly take some getting used to. It grips very well even when it's very muddy and is very stable - suspension is excellent. A nice extra is the very comprehensive manual the machine comes with. Only mod - to start with - will be to try one tooth down on the drive sprocket. I've been warned that buying titanium bits can get addictive
. I wouldn't want to ride one on a modern trials bike though.
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Sammy Miller Series 2017 - Proposed Changes
in Classic Trials
Posted
Looking at the fixture list for the 2018 ACU Classic Cup it seems the series has just one trial. Is there an alternative for those of us with a pre65 who prefer a single lap road based trial?
Cheers.