I'm tempted to buy a new 2022 EM and see they have a couple trials models. I have ridden an epure race and liked it but am not sure I would ever use the clutch. Has anyone ridden the other model with traction control? Is the traction control useful? I'm no beginner but no expert either?
Does it have a flywheel weight? If so, removing it should make it much sharper on the bottom. I read somewhere that all UK models come with the weight and are what is sold as the Super Smooth in the US. I'm not sure if that is true.
Although, I had a 2014 Evo Factory 300 2t with no weight and it was very soft on the bottom. It was quite powerful when wound up. The response was slower than the 250 or even 125. The 125s had a little tiny flywheel so even though it lacked displacement, the response was quick.
You could experiment with putting an RC low pass filter (resistor-capacitor) in line with the output of the throttle. The throttle is a simple potentiometer. A 1k ohm resister in series with the output, or tap of the throttle, followed by a 33 micro-farad capacitor tied to the negative side of the power that goes to the throttle, really softened the throttle response for me, for both opening and closing the throttle. I will be experimenting with a smaller resistor, say 680 ohms, and a larger cap, as the controller does present some load to the circuit, and adding the resistor will pull down the max throttle level a little bit - not that I ever need max throttle on that beast! The power to the throttle is 5v, and I've been using 16v polarized tantalum capacitors. If you use these, be sure to get the polarity correct or they will fail. This mod will likely void the warrantee, so proceed at your own risk. Hope this helps! Now, if I could only figure out how to implement an artificial flywheel, or motor based traction control - even with the flywheel weight on the Race model, the motor spins up and down like lightening, which has plagued me in loose rock.
Very interesting. I'm not very electronically literate but looked up some detail on this and it is frequency dependent. Does that mean is softens the response because it does not immediately react to throttle movement and wants to see it set at some position for a time period before reacting? For example, I'll guess that the twitch is 240 cycles/ second. Could resistor- capacitor sizes be calculated that would filter it out? My buddy should get his bike soon. Is that how noise filters on sound systems work?
I tried one on a 250 Rev 3. It was quite a while ago but as I recall, it a produced a very smooth low end power. The bike would pull to very low RPMs and would take large throttle openings at low RPMs. Response was similar to a very small pick up with a 4 cylinder diesel engine. Somewhere on the net was calculations or maybe recommendations on the appropriate volume.
I believe I used a spacer between carb manifold and reeds to connect the bottle. (I may have tried it before and after reeds.) At the time someone suggested it was really the spacer having the effect but I don't know. The Mikuni manifold was 1/2" shorter than the Keihin manifold. I used the Mikuni manifold with spacer and Keihin so the overall length remained the same.
I don't have a picture but if it is the small hose from the hot start button it goes to the air box. IIRC, it connects next to the crankcase breather near the carb to engine boot.
Would anyone have a source or a design for a TL250 compression release? A valve lifter type release was sold in the 70s for XL350/ 250 that should also fit a TL250.
Viton seals are usually but not always brown and that looks brown.
I see that it says Gas Gas on the bearing and it looks quite wide in the picture. Is it a roller bearing? Why did Gas Gas go to the trouble of a custom bearing? Is there a ball bearing on the other side?
If the bearing is stuck in the case, use something like a heat gun on the case. (Aluminium expands more than steel when hot.) There is a tool made for pulling the case off.
Just choosing one model on that web site is shows "4x galvanically isolated analog inputs (range from 0V to 10V)" . I'm guessing it means that a voltage is sent from the throttle. I have a friend whose throttle hand twitches like someone who has Parkinson's. Somehow he manages to ride a trials bike and has just ordered one of the EM bikes. It seems to me that an electronic signal could be averaged over time to filter out his twitch. This would certainly help him. Has anyone tried anything like that? The goal is just to be able to continue to ride.
Are there any technical specs on how the EM motor is controlled? Is the throttle just and adjustable resistor? Does that just go to some kind of standard industrial motor controller with programmable parameters? Or is there some type of computer in there as well like similar to a fly by wire gas powered street bike?
I now have a TL250 up and running. It works much better than expected except on tight turns. Has anyone tried longer shocks to help turning? What length?
Troubleshooting further, I did notice a little black smoke at the stumble spot so it was in fact rich. Increasing the slide cut away from 2.5 mm to 3.5 mm like the OEM TL250 carb has eliminated the issue. When looking on line how to cut the slide, I found nothing so will pass on how I did it. See pics. If you are good at doing things by eye, it would be much simpler to use a file.
I have 2 TLR 250's & have a Taiwanese copy & they work very well ! Taiwanese is a lot better quality than mainland china ! They start easily, will idle for as long as you want & have good power to throttle opening feel, i really can't fault them !
Did you have to do any tuning to get them to work correctly? I now have my TL250 running with a china copy but it stumbles and wants to stall just off of idle. It runs fine above that rpm and at idle. It is very throttle position specific and stumbles just as the slide lifts. I'm guessing it is throttle slide cut away. However, I do have just the slide from the OEM slide and the OEM has a larger cut away than the copy. If this is the issue, it seems opposite from what I would expect. The chamfering is a little different so that may explain. I'm not sure how to proceed.
It is not easy to use standard bent feeler gauges for valve clearance inspection and I would think a 90 degree bend would work better. Has anyone found 90 degree gauges in the correct size? I found some sets used for big diesel engines but the smallest is 0.008" and they are needed down to 0.004" (0.1 mm). There are some straight brass gauges. Do they bend better than stainless steel?
Been round the houses with extra super duper special oils, polishing the tabs and basket fingers, dimpled plates etc. Think I tried the Apico dimpled plates at one point and they were somewhat all over the place on thickness, whereas the oem honda ones are iirc three distinct thicknesses. The aftermarket ones came with more plates than required, suggesting they could be relabelled CR250 packs. My experience with the 315R clutch 'cures' were that they work temporarily then fade away. Normally that quickly that they aren't worth the time and expense.
The most successful compromise I've tried described here:
This was a compromise because it works, but there is a fine line in setting the biting point at the lever. Too far out and it will slip very slightly, but this is only perceivable if you bang it wide open at 30mph in fifth. Too close to the bars and getting neutral with the engine running gets finnicky. Bike gets used maybe thirty times a year on the easy route or practising. Set it up and it's still going fine. Think it's on 10/40W diesel engine oil now. It's a 2000 year showa model, can't remember if there were different clutches over the model years?
Edited to add, I'm using the standard oem plates (obviously fewer of them).
Very interesting modification. Over the years, I have heard of removing springs, spacing out spring mounting bolts and using thinner plates as a way to reduce drag but I fail to see the logic. I can see that all of those things reduce the amount of spring force on the clutch and can make it easier to pull in. However, as stated, isn't it the gap that allows the plates to separate. Hydraulic fluid can be considered incompressible or nearly so so why would spring force affect drag with clutch in? Is the theory that the outer clutch cover held by the springs flexes and will flex less with less spring force so there will be more gap? Or maybe that the clutch line expands and will expand less with less spring force? Has anyone tried to measure this?
Lots of trials bikes do that. One friend would pull in the clutch, put it in gear and rock back and forth with the engine off to break loose. I find it easiest to start the engine and put in gear with a little open space in front, clutch in. 20 seconds of riding around blipping the throttle with the clutch in breaks is loose. Do clutches still stick with dimpled steel plates? I heard that some year Beta's came with dimpled plates.
Traction Control Useful?
in EM (Electric Motion)
Posted
I'm tempted to buy a new 2022 EM and see they have a couple trials models. I have ridden an epure race and liked it but am not sure I would ever use the clutch. Has anyone ridden the other model with traction control? Is the traction control useful? I'm no beginner but no expert either?