pat slinn

I find it hard to understand what people are getting at here. I admit I have no experience of running B40's with electronic ignition or funny carbs. Just for the record I ran a C15 and a B40 thru most of the 60's and into the early 70's. I used Ordinary bog standard Lucas energy transfer, or std coil ignition on the B40. ( the C15 had a Lucas experimental system on it from 1965) I used a Champion N5 in both machines. If you checked the contact points before each event the systems were virtually trouble free. I s'pose I looked at and checked the spark plug every so often, and probably put a new one in before the Scottish !. O'h and by the way both bikes usually started 1st or 2nd kick.

Hi Charlie, Thank you for putting together the "Otter" web site. Not only is it explaining the history of the Otter, but it reminding me, at least of some of the history of our sport. During the 60's & 70's the trials scene in the Midland centre where I lived was very vibrant and together with the many national trials and trade supported trials you could ride nearly every weekend, sometimes on a Saturday and Sunday, and Until S.H.M. joined Bultaco nearly everybody rode a British made trials bike. many of these bikes were modified in some way or other by their owners, remember there were not the specialist trials component suppliers around then, if you needed, for example a modified pair of footrests you had to make them. If you wanted a frame with, let's say more ground clearance you modified the original frame or made a completely new one to your own design. Friends of mine, the Winwoods, Mike and Ross, remember them ? were not happy with their standard BSA C15 frames so together with their dad they set to and made their own frames, known as Walwins, does anybody know where these bikes are now ?.. Remember Dennis Jones ?, (Johna), he modified a standard James trials frame ( I think), used a modified Villiers engine and called his bike, if my memory serves me correctly a D.J.S. "Dennis Jones special." Dennis used this bike and won many Midland centre, and some National events on it. I believe he was on the leader board at the SSDT. There were many people about who were very inovative, we made mistakes, but we learnt from these mistakes, we went back to the "shed" and made another one untill we got it right. These bikes with their home made, but engineered parts and components are part of our heritage and history, and should not be forgoten. I believe that the frame that Scott Ellis and his dad made has disapered, that is such a pity, that was history, our sports history. The comp shop at BSA made and modified trials frames, and suspension and I suspect that many, if not all these have now been lost. Please keep up the good work Charlie, and I am certianly looking forward to the "express trial" and exhibition in August.

Shouldnt PRE 65 mean PRE 65, !!!!!

I couldnt agree more Big John.

Hi, Does anybody know any electro plating firms that can handle trials bike frames ?. many thanks, Pat.

Alan, Ducati had there barrels plated in Italy. I believe that there is a company called Motrac from Ellesmere Port that are specialists in Nikosiling cylinder barrels. Remember the early air cooled 250 TD Yamaha racers, they had a piston siezure problem because of cylinder distortion, water cooling sloved the problems. PS. Just looked up Motrac on the internet, I Googled Niksil plating. Pat.

Hi Charlie & Alan, I saw a C15 barrel during the 60's that had the pushrod tunnel cast in. It was from the states. Cant remember if it had a liner or a chromel bore. The 441cc Victor GP had a Nikasil bore and that was in the early 60's. The F1 & F2 Ducati engines that I built for Tony Rutter in the 80's had NiKasil bores and were trouble free. I never had to change a barrel on the 600 or 750 in 3 years, and that they were used in the TT and all the F1 & F2 championship races in the UK & Europe. There is something really satisfiying about making your own patterns, and casting something. Go for it Charlie. Pat.

Hi Charlie & Alan, I saw a C15 barrel during the 60's that had the pushrod tunnel cast in. It was from the states. Cant remember if it had a liner or a Nikasil bore. The 441cc Victor GP had a Nikasil bore and that was in the early 60's. The F1 & F2 Ducati engines that I built for Tony Rutter in the 80's had NiKasil bores and were trouble free. I never had to change a barrel on the 600 or 750 in 3 years, and that they were used in the TT and all the F1 & F2 championship races in the UK & Europe. There is something really satisfiying about making your own patterns, and casting something. Go for it Charlie. Pat.

Wellsaid Charlie, happy new year. Pat.

HI, Somebody out there must have a good tale or two regarding a boxing day trial, passed or present. Amusing, or a hard luck story, or both !. to kick off I'll start, I started up my C15 just to "check it out" on Christmas day afternoon in (I think) 1964. I knocked it into 1st gear and there was a "orrid" clunk, so I pulled the engine out of the frame took it into the warm kitchen at home at striped it and cured the problem. ( a tooth had fallen of a gear). My mom was not amused when I pushed the bike into the kitchen to fit the engine back into the frame, it had got very cold in the shed!, but she turned out as usual on boxing day with large flasks of hot coffee to warm everybody up. Anybody else have a story ??. Happy new year. Pat.

Hi Charlie, Yes it would be nice to know what happened to that frame. I hope everybody has a really good Christmas, and all the best to everybody who is trials riding on Boxing day. Pat.

Hi Charlie, Did you ever find out where BOK 228C is?. Happy christmas to everybody. Pat Slinn.

Hi Bob, If you take my advice , fit a new primary chain. It will be a lot less expensive than the wreckage you could expect from a primary chain that breaks that has been shortened. Pat.

Hi Doug, BSA produced variants of the 441cc victor, however they did not produce a 441cc trials bike. In the latter half of 1965 I built a 441cc trials bike for my personal use. This machine was also used for developing and testing various Lucas ignition systems, ( remember all the "factory" ISDT BSA's retired from the 1965 ISDT in the Isle of Man after their Lucas ignition systems failed) ,and the competitions/development dep't also built a 441cc engined trials bike, If I remember correctly Jim Sandiford tried this machine but did not persevere with it. I can not remember what happened to that machine, perhaps it was bought by somebody at BSA or even sold to a BSA dealer. My machine was eventualy turned into a ISDT bike that I rode in the 1966 ISDT in Sweeden. After that event in Sweeden I was given that bike but it disapeared !!. Perhaps Doug, the machine that you refere to is the remains of one of those two ?. Does this machine have a registration document ?, if it was a factory machine it would have BSA as the registered owner and also have a Birmingham registration number. What are the frame & engine Numbers,. Do you know if the frame is a oil in the frame one, or does it have a oil tank. If you go ahead and purchase this machine I know that you will have hours and hours of pleasure as you restore and build it. Please keep us informed as to your progress, as I for one will be very interested. Pat Slinn

Hi Guys, Does anybody know any information on the following machine. BSA 441cc Victor ISDT machine. Registered No HOE 14D. I rode this factory machine in the 1966 ISDT in Sweeden. I would love to know of it's whereabouts, and what it is doing now. I have enquired of the DVLA but they inform me that as was not the registered owner of the machine BSA were, they can not tell me where the machine is now or who the registered owner is. Basicaly the machine was a 441 cc Victor scrambler. It was modified for the ISDT, one of the striking features was a large alloy fuel tank basicaly the same shape as the standard Victor one. I do have a photo of the machine but for some reason my computer wont play ball with the "uploading" of photos. Regards, Pat.

Charlie, Roman Zeil, now there 's a name from the passed, do you know where he is now ?. I had fogoten about his velo, butt......... didn't all the sidecar guys ( in the good old days) have a switch on the tank ?, either "ON or OFF" !, you should know that Charlie ?. Pat.

Hi Guys, John Hartle was developing a "works" 500 ( mss) trials bike in the early 60's. To long ago to remember much about it, but I can remember it sounded nice!! Pat.

Hi Alan, Dont foget to put the "Brasso" in with the gearbox oil ! It polishes the bronze bushes !. Think I'm joking !.

My original theory for using silica sand was that it is so fine that some of it may get sucked up the valve guides, and thus "tune" the rocker gear. Perhaps "Glasses" guide may have a angle on theories !!

Was it "silica" sand or builders sand ?.

Hi Guys, I know this is a long shot !!, Does anybody have a copy of Motor Cycle News from 16th November 1966. Or have any ideas where or who I could possibly ask ?

Hi Dave, You will probably get what you need from the VMCC web site. They have a comrehensive transfere site. regards, Pat.

I am looking for the following programes etc. * 1964 ISDT, Erfurt, East Germany. * 1965 ISDT, Isle of Man. * 1966 ISDT, Villingsberg, Sweeden. Any body out there have a copy. Pat Slinn

I used a Amal monobloc 1", I have no experience of Mikuni carburetors on BSA singles. I still retain a Amal monobloc on my 1964 C15. I realy cant remember the thickness of the compression plate that I used, 40 years is a long time ago, I know I should have kept more precise records of what I did and used, but in thoes days people didn't. To day I keep records on my computer and photograph everything. But I can remember that I used a 441cc Victor GP "slipper piston". I do not know megacycle cams, however some C15, B40, & B44 engine parts are avaiable on ebay, a C15 camshaft was on there recently for

I played about with a 441 motor during the mid 60's, converting it for trials use. I sleved the inlet port by turning up a alloy tube and sweated it in to the port, I used a compound called "devcon" ( I think) to mould the tube to the port and shaped and smoothed it using a rotary file. I think I reduced the port size to 1". I reduced the compression ratio ( I forget by how much now) by making up a simple compression plate from alloy plate to fit beneath the cylinder. I used a C15 trials camshaft and the C15 cam followers. I remember that I found finding a suitable "gearbox" difficult, but I played about with "Victor" and C15/B40 components. The motor was quite good, and I remember that it had very good low down talk, and did super "wheelies" !!. As Charlie has said the sub frame needs pulling in, and the footrests need to go back. I hung my footrests off the swinging arm spindle, and made up a new rear brake pedal & gear lever. It sounds like a super project with a lot of scope for development, loads of engine bits turn up on ebay. Please keep us updated on progress. Regards, Pat.