Andy Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 THIS column has become almost entirely concerned about Scotland in recent weeks, but that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 Having watched from the luxury of my PC throughout the week, I must say that the new online results service was brilliant. Well done to the organisers for this. As for the severity; The top lads dropped a few on day one, this certainly made the day look very tough, especially for the lower order. I wonder if this was planned? Was it a case of 'break the no hopers' right from the start? Finally, congratulations to James Dabill for a superb win and to everyone who finished the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
city trials Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 What really bugs me as a spectator is to see Joe Sprogger manhandle his bike through the toughest section to the ends card with several little stops along the way and get a five, whilst Sidney Superstar reachs the end feet up with the aid of similar momentary halts and gets a clean. So, are you saying Joe Spogger should've gotten a three and Sidney Superstar should've gotten a five? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_h Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 What really bugs me as a spectator is to see Joe Sprogger manhandle his bike through the toughest section to the ends card with several little stops along the way and get a five, whilst Sidney Superstar reachs the end feet up with the aid of similar momentary halts and gets a clean. So, are you saying Joe Spogger should've gotten a three and Sidney Superstar should've gotten a five? i think what mike is trying to say is give them both a five or give them both the three and clean - TREAT THEM BOTH THE SAME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 Right got back mid afternoon after another great week and yes it was a tough one in the sections, the moor crossings were quite a bit easier than in previous years as it was fairly dry on the ground, so is Mike right? Sections were tougher and some longer (Monday was very tough due to the weather), but in general the majoritory were the same as previous years my early day was Saturday and I would say most were unrideable at the front as they were in my opinion more slippery than normal, whether this was due to the six week dry spell prior to this years event I don't know. A long hard section kills the clubman the top boys will level it in any case, many times this week I have had a reasonable ride for 2/3rds of the section only to scramble out for a 3 or fail for the 5, me along with many others, hard sections need to be in the trial to sort the winner out, but there did seem to be a lot this year and I am sure Mark and his team will be happy to hear the feed back and address it!! Observers were in the majority the same Stalwart crews (good on you boys) and good job done, some of the new faces were a bit harsh on us clubbys and fiving us for the momentary stop, I havn't really got a problem with it, but as Mike has pointed out would the same observer have fived a top rider I too am not sure. I did some pushing this week through the tough sections and busted my guts to hopefully get a 3 only to no avail sometimes!!!! I actually said to one observer, who after pushing and struggling through a toughie and managing to reach the end cards ''was that ok?'' FIVE came the answer, ''That's me lost the trial then I said'' Yes a tough year, but hell we enjoyed it. Well done to everyone concerned, 4RT never missed a beat on its second trip round (what a machine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 Interesting take on it Mike. The way I see it is there is a conflict of interests here. Firstly, as you have pointed out, to get enough punters to make the trial financially viable, the trial has be to ridable for the bulk of the entry. Secondly, to uphold the status of the trial, it has to be hard enough to warrant its label of the most toughest trial in the world. Here is the conflict! Ultimately, it has to be hard enough to decide a winner and with dibs riding 180 sections and dropping just 21 marks it couldn't have been far wrong. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neils on wheels Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 We've just come home from watching the second half of the week & like Mike heard a good number of riders voicing how they thought this year was too tough & one step too far. I chatted to a few other spectators throughout the week about this and the issue we kept coming back to is the range of ability of riders who make up the entry. Amongst the 275 entrants were 2 former world champions (plus world junior & youth champions), 3 or 4 current world championship riders plus a handful of world youth & junior riders. In a time when British & World championship events are so specilaised that they barely have enough entrants to award all the championship point to, its impressive that the Scottish is over subscribed. But the very fact that 450 people were willing to have a go means that the range of ability will be vast. In the context of a world round, rather than the Scottish, Dabill could have probably cleaned every section of the week. I imagine the sections must be plotted to be tricky enough to take marks of a world championship contender, who's having a lapse in concentration, without destroying a major percentage of the entry. In club trials, many nationals, British & even World championships the same problem of riders differing abilities is overcome by having 2 or 3 routes through the sections. That is clealy not possible in the Scottish, so I imagine the best the organising committee can hope for is that its hard enough to produce a result, without injuring or demoralising a significant number of entrants. Throw in the variables of the Scottish weather and the multiplier effect that a rider who loses more marks, so has to work harder in the sections, gets more tired so loses more marks & so on, then I think the club have a near impossible task. One thing is certain though, I last spectated in 1981 & it was fantastic to get back up for a few days. What a marvellous event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02-apr Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 I certainly saw a few "names" well stopped with a foot down with the crowd reaction indicating that they, at least, thought it was not a five. One can imagine the reaction if an observer then announced to the throng that a five had been clocked. This may be one of the reasons why observers are not allowed to respond to an enquiry about the score. It is not their choice to do so - they are under instruction from the organisers not to reveal scores to anyone except an official or a member of the press - at least they always were so instructed and I can't see why that would have changed. No point criticising observers for obeying the instructions of the Clerk of Course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesy Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 (edited) Observers were in the majority the same Stalwart crews (good on you boys) and good job done, some of the new faces were a bit harsh on us clubbys and fiving us for the momentary stop, I havn't really got a problem with it, but as Mike has pointed out would the same observer have fived a top rider I too am not sure. I did some pushing this week through the tough sections and busted my guts to hopefully get a 3 only to no avail sometimes!!!!I actually said to one observer, who after pushing and struggling through a toughie and managing to reach the end cards ''was that ok?'' FIVE came the answer, ''That's me lost the trial then I said'' I take it you mean the top sub at Kilmalieu?? I was the observer! I didn't get a ride this year so went up to observe for a few days, I've ridden the Scottish 4 times and thought observing would be a piece of cake. How wrong I was! Sometimes the difference between a 3 and a 5 is tiny. When a rider stopped ( feet up or not) I counted "one, two" and if they were still stationary then it was a 5 in my book. I'm sorry if you didn't agree but I was consistent throughout the (long) day, so was impartial with everyone. Tommi Ahvalha also fell foul to a 5 for stopping and took the decision very well, we laughed at your response, that's how I remember it was you!! On another note I was particularly cheesed off at the amount of riders who asked for a 5 on my sections, I won't name names, but they were serial offenders! One lad rode my last section with no clutch lever rather than ask for a 5, I don't know how, but he cleaned it!! My point is that some see spending Edited May 13, 2007 by Hughesy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 I take it you mean the top sub at Kilmalieu?? I was the observer! I didn't get a ride this year so went up to observe for a few days, I've ridden the Scottish 4 times and thought observing would be a piece of cake. How wrong I was! Sometimes the difference between a 3 and a 5 is tiny. When a rider stopped ( feet up or not) I counted "one, two" and if they were still stationary then it was a 5 in my book. I'm sorry if you didn't agree but I was consistent throughout the (long) day, so was impartial with everyone. Tommi Ahvalha also fell foul to a 5 for stopping and took the decision very well, we laughed at your response, that's how I remember it was you!! Yep thats about right it was a good struggle, but made it to the top, damn right it was a 5, but we have all tried to get away with a 3 My response was apt and indeed caused a laugh from all of us. Well done for being consistant, not something Mike has seen from other observers from his observations as a spectator....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proc Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 On the subject of riders dropping out, my mate got a phone call 10am saturday morning threw the bike in the van and made the 5 hour trip north so he could ride, so have to agree with mike on the late drop outs not getting there entry fee back as it's not fair on the club or the last minute replacements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 soon sort the empty places at the start out. If you drop out in the last seven days you lose your entry fee (like you would for a week in majorca) and the sub off the bench gets to ride for half price.. sub wins (half price ride) club wins 50% extra for each ride that they find a sub for I guarantee Mairi wont have dozens dropping out with ingrowing toe nails and colds the week before. got to agree that if Dibbs is only dropping 20 odd over 180 sections it sounds like it was easy for him, but with lads dropping 800 odd over the same sections than it was too hard for them, but with 275 starters what do they say about noy getting it right for all of the people all of the time? Hang on though isn't this the worlds oldest toughest longest best known trial? as an average clubman (alright much worse than average) I'd expect to have to fight like hell to finish never mind clean a couple of sections a day and each three would be a very hard fought victory and yes i might stoop to ask for a few fives but if i've paid my money and not fallen foul of Dheli belly in the week before I'd ride just to say ''I was there'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tordijarres Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 Observers- we couldn't have our sport without their considerable sacrifice in time and money to be there, and they are under pressure and sometimes have their view blocked by throngs of spectators. OK, having got that disclaimer out of the way, observing inconsistencies I witnessed: 1. Shaun Morris at a section Ba House as I recall, Thursday- slid at least 2 foot backwards ona slab "step", then dabbed and set off again- a one was recorded, according to hand signals I observed (or at least I think that's what was meant!) 2. Dan Thorpe- Trotters Burn- last section of the day- wonderful leg waving "save", for a clean, except one had to put to one side (as the observer did) that he had knocked over the blue marker at the top of the step... 3. Trotters Burn- same section, a foreign rider miffed as he was given a 3, which was obviously some kind of compromise, as, as far as I could make out, one of his mates had grabbed his front fork momentarily at the top of the step, whilst the rider had his foot down- so that should perhaps have been a 5 (if this was his minder/mate) or was it a re-run (if it was a random rider giving unwanted help) ? Certainly it wasn't a 3. 4. Almost any section you care to mention- extremely charitable 3s being given to the lower order as they toiled. We're talking multiple roll-backs with feet down (was this done due to the general feeling the trial was "too hard?") Re the difficulty, it's an international single route trial for crying out loud! Let us not forget that in the modern era (not talking about single dab rides for the whole week...), the trial is now easier in terms of finishing scores than for decades before. Granted this is in part due to the gulf that has arisen in riding standards where Shaun Morris can ride a lap of a Brit Champs round for zilch, but in fairness, he and the others bar 5 are outclassed in WTC, and a fantastic rider like Dan Thorpe has had to drop out of the Championship class at BTC as he was uncompetative, yet he will run rings round most centre experts, who in turn will go round club trials for a handful of marks. I think we have to accept that the SSDT isn't for everyone. If the less able riders want to come up and be cannon fodder, then OK, but don't complain about it afterwards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highland lassie Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 If you drop out in the last seven days you lose your entry fee (like you would for a week in majorca) and the sub off the bench gets to ride for half price.. sub wins (half price ride) club wins 50% extra for each ride that they find a sub for We'll definitely be changing policy on the entry fee refund - at present if you quit six weeks before the trial you lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig10 Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 On another note I was particularly cheesed off at the amount of riders who asked for a 5 on my sections, I won't name names, but they were serial offenders! For the last couple of years the observers have been asked to note those asking for fives. This year the number asking me dropped dramatically compared to the last two years. Infact, I only had about 5 serial offenders. There are those who are wise to it though and run their front wheel through the start cards and ride out the side of the section. BTW, what do people class as a 'mometary stop', one stop, twice, bike bouncing off the same rock five times? It's a tough job but someone's got to do it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts