Week 17 - A Case For A Classic Cock-up

[Andy]

AS secretary of one of the clubs that organises a round of the ACU Classic Trials Championship (Lancs County) I received a letter from the ACU recently which said that some concerns had been expressed about the Classic Championship.

The letter said that many of the entries for these rounds are from Over 40 and Over 50 riders on modern machines, and a view has been expressed that the sections, whilst ideal for these two classes, are at times not always suitable for Pre 75 British Bikes and Twin-shock machines. The complaints appeared to be particularly concerned over tight sections and steep drops.

Now as I recall this series was originally called the SEBAC Championship and was principally for twin-shock machines. Since those early days the classes have expanded to the current five, which I believe make it a very viable championship and if plotted with care and consideration, the sections should be suitable for all, though that tends to be a view not shared by everybody, but more of that in a moment.

Where I think things can go wrong is when clubs decide to open up the trial to other classes, in particular sidecars and normal adult classes. I believe that clubs do this because they are concerned that they will not achieve a decent entry if they stick with the five Classic classes, therefore, if they open the trial up, they hope for a better entry, therefore more income.

But having been at the helm of one of these trials for four years now, I consider the secret is having sensible sections for the classics, and they alone will attract a viable entry. At the time of writing, there have been five rounds, only two of which were exclusively for classic classes. Of the other three, two included sidecars and one had a separate class for local solos. I

[twinshockdude]

the severity of the sections is obviously a huge factor,but there is some thing you have not mentioned, i have spoken at length to many classic bike riders,as a club official and as a rider,and what comes through loud and clear is that they don`t like rding in events where there are modern bikes,some of the pre `65 riders even have a problem air cooled mono bikes,this caused a parting of the ways at the club i was involved with .it seems many people only want to be with their " own kind "

maybe a trial is classic or modern with nothing in between.

Edited May 27, 2007 by twinshockdude

[malcra]

If the severity of the sections is an issue, then there is an _easier_ alternative, the Sammy Miller series. This has seen a significant increase of riders riding class 8, Twinshock, on the main route and some on the easier, Sidecar, route. The decline the 7 pre-65 classes has been noticable, with in some cases 1 or 2 entries only.

More two route twinshock and pre-65 trials, the an 'expert' and 'clubman' route makes a lot of sense. Think Rhayader Classic Experts and the formula for this years return of a classic 'Traders' [1] run by the Wye Valley club to be run in September.

[1] not allowed to call it that, but think Pitley's gone on holiday :-)

[scorpa3]

The Stratford-Upon-Avon Club recently held a Sammy Miller round and aimed the sections at your average Classic rider. On the day, perfect weather conditions helped make the day easier than I as Clerk of the Course intended, but the trial was a real success. Almost every class was won on clean and only the rigid (easy route) class needed the special test to decide the winner.

I agree that the day needed to be a little more of a test, however it was a real success and enjoyed by the majority of the 105 riders and more importantly to the club, was financially viable.

We welcomed trail bikes and infact would have been perfectly happy for anyone to ride on any bike on a no award basis as a special. I personally think there's nothing wrong with a rider of a Gas Gas/Sherco etc entering and seeing how they compare to the likes of Neil Gaunt and Mick Grant on their classic machines.... they might be very much suprised how good the top boys are on their pre-65's!

Back to the special test, this is where the Clerk of the Course gets his/her cop out. As I've said, the top chaps would like a real challenge, but the use the special test allows the organisers to get it wrong and still have a result. And by get it wrong I mean TOO EASY and too easy is the way to attract more riders and thus keep the classic series going.

Lets not see classic trials go the way of WTC/BTC and become the reserve of the top 10/15 riders in the country. Appeal to the majority.

[jimmyl]

On the Novogar point, just ridden Lyn Traders today for first time, cracking event apart from the weather. Lots of clubmen ridding the easier route but top boys still looked to be challanged on on the harderd route. 100 plus entries I think and all off road. I have ridden the Rhayader trial before on a modern bike and was an excellent trial but relaitively easy (as you would expect) . Also ridden Novogars. 2 courses these days maybe makes a lot of sense to get a good entry and also a challanging competeitive championship class. Moving over 40's etc to Novagar would then work I suppose.

[scorpa3]

On the Novogar point, just ridden Lyn Traders today for first time, cracking event apart from the weather. Lots of clubmen ridding the easier route but top boys still looked to be challanged on on the harderd route. 100 plus entries I think and all off road. I have ridden the Rhayader trial before on a modern bike and was an excellent trial but relaitively easy (as you would expect) . Also ridden Novogars. 2 courses these days maybe makes a lot of sense to get a good entry and also a challanging competeitive championship class. Moving over 40's etc to Novagar would then work I suppose.

As an organising club of this years Novogar series, a B route would work very well for our event in the future.

[paioli]

a good understanding of what a pre75 / twinshock motorcycle is capable of doing safely seems

to be missing from some of the ACU classic series clerk of the course manuals,

or are they going to introduce a B40-WETDRUMBRAKE-BIGDROPOFF-TEST for 2008 !!!

[chrisb7]

I rode my Ossa 350 at the Angela Redford trial this year and thought the severity of the sections was spot on. (Although the weather and my riding were rubbish!) However, I was disappointed to see that the largest number of riders was in the 'veterans on modern machines' class. Having only just returned to trials, I had expected to see a big turnout of twinshock and pre 75. Anyway, I thought the sections were well suited for both modern and not so modern machines. The clerk of the course did a good job in my view.

[nigel dabster]

I rode my Ossa 350 at the Angela Redford trial this year and thought the severity of the sections was spot on. (Although the weather and my riding were rubbish!) However, I was disappointed to see that the largest number of riders was in the 'veterans on modern machines' class. Having only just returned to trials, I had expected to see a big turnout of twinshock and pre 75. Anyway, I thought the sections were well suited for both modern and not so modern machines. The clerk of the course did a good job in my view.

The popularity of the veterens, over 40 and over 50 now also, is more than anything simply a mirror of the age distribution in trials today.

I wouldn;t mind betting that the average age has gradually crept up over the years and these riders are looking for somewhere to have a bit of a decent trial. I think the sections of the hillsboro for example probably are a tad easier thn in the 70/80's but bear a real resemblence and that is what attracts the entry.

In the years that I persevered with the classic the twinshock route wasn't so bad, but the pre 65 class is jammed packed with "fiddle" machines. The problem is imho is the classic has become the over 40 championship first and foremost. I tried to address this by persuading the ACU to try an over 40 class in the novogars, but that would be fine if the novogars were set at the standard they should be, mostly they are too hard. If the current over 40 champion feels the novogars too hard then only the few, richard Allen dave Clinkard will be able or willing to do it. It begs for a second route, but not as some suggest but the other way, ie the trials in the series are marked out easier, with only 4/5 hareder sections for dan thorpe and any other experts who want to ride the 'gars.

It all comes back to perhaps a big shake up as there is too many overlaps, classic and sammy over 40 and novogars, it needs a shake up and sort out where perhaps a few could attend the Rugby forum and air constructive suggestions.

Mikes trials was near enough the mark, but only because the fiddle bikes and things like the cotswold are there, and very good riders Shield Wiffen and so on are on very well prepared oldr bikes.

[rosey]

To be honest there are too many moaners and not enough doers (people who dedicate time to setting out trials).... The trial should be set out for its main class(es) such as pre'65 or twin shock... other add on classes must live with the fact.

I thought the main reason for classic trials was for people to get out on old bikes and have fun.... All the fiddle bikes are a joke...its clear that a '72 Ossa is not as good as an '83 240 or 300 Fantic, but if the riders are out their having fun then they are WINNING (regardless of the result) not whining.

I watched the Robregordo trial near Madrid..it was great fun...most people were having fun. OK many of the bikes were slightly modernised, but still there were some old clunkers out there being ridden...Christ I might even get a twin shock myself (steady on!)

If they think the classic trials are too easy, go and take the old banger out for a spin in a normal club or centre trial. If they 'want to win that' then go and buy a more modern bike and train and practise ........... Maybe I'm getting carried away, but most of the moaners are certainly NOT the doers!

[scorpa3]

The trial should be set out for its main class(es) such as pre'65 or twin shock... other add on classes must live with the fact.

Exactly the point I was making.

[old trials fanatic]

To be honest there are too many moaners and not enough doers (people who dedicate time to setting out trials).... The trial should be set out for its main class(es) such as pre'65 or twin shock... other add on classes must live with the fact.

I thought the main reason for classic trials was for people to get out on old bikes and have fun.... All the fiddle bikes are a joke...its clear that a '72 Ossa is not as good as an '83 240 or 300 Fantic, but if the riders are out their having fun then they are WINNING (regardless of the result) not whining.

I watched the Robregordo trial near Madrid..it was great fun...most people were having fun. OK many of the bikes were slightly modernised, but still there were some old clunkers out there being ridden...Christ I might even get a twin shock myself (steady on!)

If they think the classic trials are too easy, go and take the old banger out for a spin in a normal club or centre trial. If they 'want to win that' then go and buy a more modern bike and train and practise ........... Maybe I'm getting carried away, but most of the moaners are certainly NOT the doers!

Good on yer. Nice chatting to you at Robregordo and nice to see you on here. Must say re laying out a trial the lads at Motoclub Sotobike had it IMHO spot on. Even an old wobbler like me could get round and enjoy myself.

So will we see you there riding next year?

[paioli]

just think if Saunders,Lampkin and scarlett, started doing the o/40 classic series on modern bikes the

poor old clerk of the course would not know which way to go, time for a second route, or just limit the

series to the pre75, twinshocks you could even call it the classic series!!!

IMHO i would go for the two routes and limit the entries to only classic pre75, twinshocks,

aircooled monos and veterans o/40,o/50 and o/60 on modern bikes, with the main emphasis

in section plotting,being sections suitable for pre75 and twinshock,these could also be ridden

safely by the o/50 and o/60 riders on modern bikes, and have 5 or 6 sections with harder

deviations for the air cooled mono and o/40 riders, and please god NO special test!

[bilco]

So are we saying this is another trial that's going to be butchered,on the other hand sound's like it allready is.

Edited May 31, 2007 by bilco

[scorpa3]

just think if Saunders,Lampkin and scarlett, started doing the o/40 classic series on modern bikes the

poor old clerk of the course would not know which way to go, time for a second route, or just limit the

series to the pre75, twinshocks you could even call it the classic series!!!

IMHO i would go for the two routes and limit the entries to only classic pre75, twinshocks,

aircooled monos and veterans o/40,o/50 and o/60 on modern bikes, with the main emphasis

in section plotting,being sections suitable for pre75 and twinshock,these could also be ridden

safely by the o/50 and o/60 riders on modern bikes, and have 5 or 6 sections with harder

deviations for the air cooled mono and o/40 riders, and please god NO special test!

If there was a suitable over 40 championship in another series, the best over 40's could ride there and harder sections would not be needed.

I personally think the way forward is to keep classic trials easy, appeal to the average rider on a bike which is in the true spirit of the class and solve the tie break problem with a special test.

If this attracts a decent entry, without having to appeal to riders like Saunders, Lampkin and Scarlett then there is no need to bother with sections for them. Keep it simple and straight forward.