Motor Cycle Clubs. Do We Need Them? Will We Have To Find Another Way?

[old trials fanatic]

It appears that there is a distinct possibility of two clubs locally folding due to a lack of people coming forward to shoulder the load and or help out with the organisation etc.

I have offered to do what little i can but it takes more than just one person and that is the problem. We all lead busy lives and we all have our own pressures on our time and resourses. However it will be a sad day indeed if either or both of these clubs fold due to lack of interest.

It's not that there are a lack of entries more that the organisational duties are left to the same old few and in one case just two people. There comes a point when these people say "enough is enough it's time somebody else took over". The problem is nobody looks like they want to take over.

This is the case all over the country i've seen it happen in football, angling and car clubs i have been a member of. Some of the times it's been me who's said "enough is enough". I dont think things will change as there are always more people who want to turn up and enjoy themselves while somebody somewhere does all the spade work. Thats just human nature.

So whats to be done? Do you just let things take their course and hope that something phoenix like will arise from the ashes? I dont know the answer. I sometimes feel that you are just prolonging the inevetable.

Is there another way?

A suggestion i did hear was for a more informal gathering of like minded riders more along the lines of a practice session where say ten guys each lay out a section. Then everybody that turns up rides and observes each other then it's all down to the pub and count the scores. On the plus side then no one person has to do all the paperwork, banking, sending out of results, permits etc etc as there isnt any. On the negative side well it personally just doesnt feel like a "proper" competition. I am sure there are other considerations which havent been thought of which is one reason i have posted this as i would appreciate hearing of others experiences.

One thing that is for sure is that as time goes on i can forsee this happening elsewhere and i wonder if the time is rapidly approaching when we have to take a long hard look at the way our sport is organised.

A lot of clubs struggle for observers already due to demographic and other influences. It only takes one or two people to resign and not be replaced for a club to no longer exist.

Is there another way? I'm listening

[scorpa3]

All too true OTF. Another thing which is going to effect the sport is age.

Our club, as with many I ride with, has an average age for it's committee members well over 60. Where are we going to be in 10 years time? Or 20? There isn't (for us) any new blood coming through. There is one 'young lad' in our club, the other members still think of him as being a Schoolboy rider.... he was 40 this year!!!!

[andy m]

Good topic OTF, do you need 2 clubs locally, maybe those who can be bothered can merge ?? Maybe that is the way to go ? I opted out of club activity locally for personal reasons for a while. It took the forming of a club a couple of years ago to wake up another "local" club that had been near deaths door for a long time to smell the coffee and due to the hard work of a couple of people have now earned a good name in the trials world. Read Rappers topic and WVAC have a good press. I am not a member as I am busy with other things, but I ride the trials they put on when I can. Possibly in the future less clubs covering a wider area maybe. Trouble is when it comes to the sh** end of the stick it is the same old same old and some of the kids out there will wonder what has happened one day when they need to travel further and further etc.

[atomant]

This is an interesting Topic and one that I could comment on with some experience !!RANT WARNING !!

When I started back in trials 2005, I got involved in a club straightaway of which were just 2 people and some family support. I helped them out with a website etc, wrote some scoring software and got really involved. We put a lot of effort into it with local press coverage, TC & TMX coverage and write ups and generally tried hard to do some good well organized trials. We had a high youth contingent in our club so we put up a Midland youth championship (which our chairman sponsored) which was supported by some of the other clubs in our centre.(thank you)

It was good fun and I really enjoyed it ... until ... the moaners set in and started to p*** us right off. This was at Committee level and local level. At committee level there were some 'Egos' from certain long term members that had to be challenged and at club level , there was attitude locally from outside our club which was just pathetic to be honest. Both issues combined caused unnecessary agro which ultimately ensured that we decided to poke it and pack it in. On the committee their were some genuine people in it for the sport and working hard, then there were some people of which the sport was secondary to their status. Those are the people who need to take a fresh look at their contribution to the sport!

Also, one point about the trials moaners, they fall into the category of people who will tell you how it should be done but when asked to contribute and help, you don't see them for dust!

So to answer the question, do we need clubs.. I strongly believe YES we do. Clubs are the lifeblood of the sport and the people that run them need to be given some help and encouragement. So on that note, I strongly suggest that if you are in the moaner category, then either go and help the club or go and do something else and leave the sport to people who want to enjoy it and respect the people who work hard putting on trials for the benefit of others. 100% of our local riders now have 5 less local trials to ride a year (where we were averaging nearly 80 riders per trial) just because of a few % being complete a****holes and spoiling it for the rest.

How many other clubs have seen or see this as a problem?

[bilco]

OTF.

Maybe it's worth considering introducing lunch break's at your club trial's,people would have to mingle with each other more and hopefully a few would become interested on how the club work's,you know what it can be like sometime's at trial's people pull up off load ride the trial as quick as possible and go home,if you take a break it will slow them down abit and add a bit more of a social edge to the trial.

Lost count at the trial's i've done where you'd go back for something to eat in the afternoon and half the car park has gone.

Look's like you have to pull your member's in,lunch might bring on a few moan's but by the sound's of thing's you ain't got much to lose by it.

[scorpa3]

OTF.

Maybe it's worth considering introducing lunch break's at your club trial's,people would have to mingle with each other more and hopefully a few would become interested on how the club work's,you know what it can be like sometime's at trial's people pull up off load ride the trial as quick as possible and go home,if you take a break it will slow them down abit and add a bit more of a social edge to the trial.

Lost count at the trial's i've done where you'd go back for something to eat in the afternoon and half the car park has gone.

Look's like you have to pull your member's in,lunch might bring on a few moan's but by the sound's of thing's you ain't got much to lose by it.

This may be an idea well worth considering, we do this in the long distance road trials which we organise and it is very popular. However there are pitfalls with lunch breaks at club trials.

Some people, (myself included) would shy away from this as it means that I get home later.

Time; For me every second away trials riding has to be made up at another time with the family. It's great when I get home at 1.30 having ridden in the morning and can then do the normal family things in the afternoon.

Organisation; someone has to organise the lunch break. I know this can be made fairly simple, but none the less it is another thing for someone to do. At our trials, having spent the whole of the previous day setting out, I am the first there at 8.30 on a Sunday morning and always the last to leave. There's already a lot to do.

Observers; We are lucky in that we have a core of regular observers (two or three), they come purely to observe with the knowledge that the trial will be over around lunch time. Would they come if the day was going to be an hour longer? What is it was raining? Would everyone be prepared to go back out for another couple of hours soaking wet?

I don't mean to put a downer on the suggestion but merely thinking of the problems. I'd be most interested to hear what other people think.

[bilco]

OTF.

Maybe it's worth considering introducing lunch break's at your club trial's,people would have to mingle with each other more and hopefully a few would become interested on how the club work's,you know what it can be like sometime's at trial's people pull up off load ride the trial as quick as possible and go home,if you take a break it will slow them down abit and add a bit more of a social edge to the trial.

Lost count at the trial's i've done where you'd go back for something to eat in the afternoon and half the car park has gone.

Look's like you have to pull your member's in,lunch might bring on a few moan's but by the sound's of thing's you ain't got much to lose by it.

This may be an idea well worth considering, we do this in the long distance road trials which we organise and it is very popular. However there are pitfalls with lunch breaks at club trials.

Some people, (myself included) would shy away from this as it means that I get home later.

Time; For me every second away trials riding has to be made up at another time with the family. It's great when I get home at 1.30 having ridden in the morning and can then do the normal family things in the afternoon.

Organisation; someone has to organise the lunch break. I know this can be made fairly simple, but none the less it is another thing for someone to do. At our trials, having spent the whole of the previous day setting out, I am the first there at 8.30 on a Sunday morning and always the last to leave. There's already a lot to do.

Observers; We are lucky in that we have a core of regular observers (two or three), they come purely to observe with the knowledge that the trial will be over around lunch time. Would they come if the day was going to be an hour longer? What is it was raining? Would everyone be prepared to go back out for another couple of hours soaking wet?

I don't mean to put a downer on the suggestion but merely thinking of the problems. I'd be most interested to hear what other people think.

Lunch never seemed to be a problem in the old day's infact it was most welcomed by nearly every rider and observer,you'd get to know the people you was ridding with.

Ok if it's a wet day or winter time then the club can change there mind's to keep going or stop for a break on the day of the trial,now the summer's coming it's an ideal time to test the waters.

The family issue,well bring them along,make club trial's a social event ,or give the wife aload of money to go shopping, that will keep her happy for the rest of the day.

The only time you get to talk to another rider is when your waiting in a section after that you'd never see them again.

I can underdstand that the organisation is tough,but the better we get to know people the more they will help us out a little more to make your life a bit easier?

At the end of the day it's the member's responsabilty to help the club out in any little way they can,to keep away the problem otf has.

Edited June 4, 2007 by bilco

[nickj]

Clubs and committees have had this problem for years, certainly in all of the 20 odd years I have been involved in various types of motorsport.

Two things are common:

Committees that don't do enough to bring people into the organising side, and often if they do the newcomers are given the duff jobs and soon get disillusioned and disappear. Few if any volunteer for committee duty, so make sure that you search out the potential candidates and if they do come on board make sure that they feel valued and above all enjoy their experience.

Committees that don't plan ahead enough, or ask for help enough, so that when shouts for help do come they are last minute, difficult to meet, and leaves the usual few doing all the work. Asking someone to help once a year a few months in advance (and then following up with reminders) is much easier to organise (but harder to remember to do).

On a related note, coming to trials from organising rallying from club events to what used to be called the RAC has been great fun as well as a hell of a lot cheaper, and one of the things that impressed me was how some clubs have really worked to make the organisation of a club trial as 'painless' as possible, whilst others seem to be reluctant to move forward. An example would be how some make full use of e-mail for observers, entries, and results, etc. but others don't.

Bilco - I share Shero3's position on the need to balance trials time with family life. The main reason my wife avoids observing is the length of time it takes some riders to finish a club trial, often well after the majority have departed. Perhaps giving observers and competitors a finish time might help retain a few.

[old trials fanatic]

Thanks for the input guys. I have also been in favour of lunch breaks and not just for the social reasons which i agree does seem to be sadly lacking nowadays. I too remember in the 70's there was always a lunch break. Time for a chat, a fettle of the bike and a cuppa. Also allowed the observers to swap sections if they wanted to and the organisers to change the odd section that may have been a problem. We used to also sometimes ride the sections in reverse i remember. It was second nature to ask "same as last lap?"

I think the problem in this instance is the fact that the two Clubs in question are specifically "Classic Clubs" in as much as they are for riders of pre 65 and twinshock bikes only with no modern bikes allowed. That in itself was one of the attractions for me but what it does result in is a much older group of riders and club members. When i used to go trialling there was me my dad and mum in the van. Most people arrived en masse. As we get older things change. Now my dad is dead and my mum doesnt go out much due to infirmity. This results in a lot of riders coming on their own. When there are younger riders in a club there are a ready supply of Dads some of which will gravitate to organisational duties. That is inherently the problem. All the Club members are getting older. Very little new blood is coming in at pre65 level especially. Also the riders dont want to "get involved" they just want to enjoy their ride. Strangely the organisers would love to also "enjoy their ride" but they cant because they get pestered by "other things" usually other riders moaning about the severity or even the lack of the sections. Eventually they say enough is enough now i'm going to enjoy my ride again and the club and the moaners can go to hell. Who can say in their position YOU wouldnt do likewise. I know i think i would say sod it too.

Perhaps as has been suggested the area can not support two Classic only trials clubs?

Just find it a shame and a waste if it comes to that.

I agree clubs are the bedrock of the sport. Practice days just dont do it for me. I need competition to motivate me and to me that needs to be a club with a championship etc even if i dont stand a cat in hells chance of ever winning it.

If nothing else just bear these things in mind when you next ride. Offer to help even if not asked. It will be appreciated. Finally before you moan at somebody just stand in their shoes first and wonder how you would feel ?

Value your Club while you still have one.

[scorpa3]

Yes, well said OTF.

Small things can often make a big difference to the organisers, for example if a rider simply goes around at the end and takes down the section marking and brings it to the start... or at a couple of our venues, just stays back for ten mins and helps put the fence posts back in to stop the livestock escaping. These little things are a real help at the end of the day and really appreciated.

I would be willing to include a lunch break at our trials if the riders wanted it.... however, personally I wouldn't.

I'd go as far as to say I would avoid a trial if it had one. I did a two part trial a few years back and didn't get home until 5pm. It made a good day out but I really needed to do other things with the family (who incidentally would rather have their teeth pulled out than go to watch motorbikes in a muddy field with no toilets!)

Is there any chance we can set up a reader poll on the subject?

Club trials with lunch breaks.

Would you:

• A. Like to have a lunch break.
  
  
• B. Rather not have a lunch break.
  
  
• C. Would avoid a trial with a lunch break.
  
  
• D. No preference
  
  

[atomant]

I was reading OTF's post and it all started to come flooding back how it use to be. I had forgotten that we use to stop for lunch and then ride the sections in reverse but then the trials I rode were just one route so it was quite easy to do.

I did enjoy the gathering at lunch although when it was peeing down, sitting in the van soaking wet and cold was no fun knowing you had to go back out and do it again. The heating in the transit van we had then wasn't too good if I remember well!

Doing sections in reverse was good though as obviously you effectively ride 20 different sections instead of 10 x 4 times. It could work again (probably in the summer only) by starting a little earlier than normal but with modern trials being multi routed these days it may make it too difficult. 2 route trials could probably do it. The only thing is, some riders (normally Experts) take an age to look at some sections before they ride them and they would be doing this all over again on the second laps after lunch!

Also Pete, as we rode the Bewdley trial together, it started quite early and I was finished by around 1.30pm. So after packing up etc I was back before 3pm which meant the wife said when I got in, " Oh, you're back early, you can fit the garden hose pipe and tap now then" .

Getting back early has its down falls as well too

p.s. I have added the poll

[scorpa3]

Cheers for that Ian.

Getting backto do the garden or go out with the other half is the only way I can accrue enough credits to go out the following week. When I spend all weekend setting out/running a trial, it takes me weeks to get back in the black enough to have another Sunday off.

I'd love to ride my bike all the time, but there really is more to life than motorbikes. (Although I hate to admit it!) Life and trials riding has to go hand in hand.

Picking up on your other point, how good was that Bewdley trial on Sunday! Two well plotted routes, fifteen sections, no real stoppers, brilliant sunshine and excellent company........ makes life worth living! Thanks to all involved.

[old trials fanatic]

All good input and thanks for the poll.

However no body seems able to offer any conclusion regards do we need clubs as we know them.

A lot of dissatisfaction that so much is left by so many to so few to organise.

Also a lot of Clubs suffer from or have looming the problem of an ageing commitee.

So is there another way or do we have to carry on as we are? the poo is going to hit the fan at some point at your club. Think it may be getting too late for mine. Hopefully not but how can we, apart from coercing people to help, find a better way assuming there is one?

[atomant]

So is there another way or do we have to carry on as we are?

Yes . There definitely is another way! (Bear with me )

When I was doing the club stuff, the view was that I was a volunteer which was taking up my time (and money) and if people are gonna moan and p*** me off then stuff this I will get out! and thats what I did. But... It is quite possible to make a part time income at running trials as a business so therefore you might be prepared to put up with all that c***

We use to clear around

[the addict]

Got to be a good way to go Ian, some of that unpaid effort and time deserves to be paid for in my view and could free up some time for organisers in the week to sort things out rather than giving up most of there weekends.

Not sure what the ACU stance would be if clubs were run as businesses and profit making ones at that but I think it would be the best way to go for some clubs. I am pretty sure Steve Irelands Enduro Club runs as a businesss, maybe loads do but i do remember how well events were organised and run and money spent on whats needed.