The Sport Of Trials

[neonsurge]

To explain more, F1 manages with 20 competitors they don't need 100.

Very poor analogy. F1 has speed, excitement (well, compared to trials and again, from a purely casual observer's perspective) and it's easy to provide TV coverage due to the short lap, easy access and on-site facilities. People can relate to F1 because, well, they're just cars right? And that means heavy involvement and investment from major manufacturers which means $$$$. Trials has none of those attributes, all of which are essential for a sport to become commercially successful. F1 would continue to exist if there were just 10 cars on the grid, I've absolutely no doubt of that. In fact, it would probably just add to the mystique due to the perceived exclusivity.

[scottt]

Every sport at some time has its 15minutes of fame on TV, remember bunjee jumping, you couldnt turn an extreme channel on without that being on.

We had our day with kickstart, simple stuff good to watch and most people over a certain age will know what you do straight away when you mention kickstart. And unless coverage is on one of the 4 main channels it defeats the object as most people wont see it

As for sponsorship forget it unless you are at the very top, or you spend plenty of money on part then you might get some form of sponsorship but that wont be much more than 10% of your parts.

The people that cover there vans in stickers (pretend profesionals I think someone posted) I think its great if nothing else it is noticed by the general public and any outside interest cant be

[atomant]

To explain more, F1 manages with 20 competitors they don't need 100.

Very poor analogy. F1 has speed, excitement (well, compared to trials and again, from a purely casual observer's perspective) and it's easy to provide TV coverage due to the short lap, easy access and on-site facilities. People can relate to F1 because, well, they're just cars right? And that means heavy involvement and investment from major manufacturers which means $$$$. Trials has none of those attributes, all of which are essential for a sport to become commercially successful. F1 would continue to exist if there were just 10 cars on the grid, I've absolutely no doubt of that. In fact, it would probably just add to the mystique due to the perceived exclusivity.

I agree and also to add to this, The barriers to entry are huge in F1. The cost's of a team for a start and then when you have a driver, a car, and a team, you still have to be competitive else you dont get a place on the starting grid.

But, the parallels you can draw with F1 are that the same faces appear on the podium all the time. Watching Shumacher turn up and win all the time got so boring I stopped watching it. (Will Toni Bou do the same in trials?)

But can you name the team that comes last every time for instance? Maybe you can or maybe you cant but the driver of that car that comes last still gets a pay cheque and a healthy one at that! Which is way more than what the WTC champion is getting never mind anyone else.

[scottt]

Forget F1, you just cant compare it.

Look at Karting instead, thats probably more of a direct comparison. You can start at 8yrs old, can be competetive for about

[scottt]

And theres 22 in F1 (24 next year)

And the Spyker team normaly come last.

[bilco]

If F1 lost all it's sponsor's it would fall apart overnight.

[scottt]

If F1 lost all it's sponsor's it would fall apart overnight.

Not really, costs would come down hugely. High paid drivers and big motorhomes would go but it would carry on. Dont forget F1 has Honda, Renault, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and Fiat (Ferrari), they are a few companies that arent exactly short of money. Im sure if they wanted either of them could buy Gas Gas, Sherco & Beta without worrying about what it would cost.

It wasnt that long ago (early 80's) you could run a F1 team on 5million a year, it would just go back to that.

[bilco]

If F1 lost all it's sponsor's it would fall apart overnight.

Not really, costs would come down hugely. High paid drivers and big motorhomes would go but it would carry on. Dont forget F1 has Honda, Renault, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and Fiat (Ferrari), they are a few companies that arent exactly short of money. Im sure if they wanted either of them could buy Gas Gas, Sherco & Beta without worrying about what it would cost.

It wasnt that long ago (early 80's) you could run a F1 team on 5million a year, it would just go back to that.

I would'nt of thought 5 million would give you the same today than what it would give you in the 80's.

Edited September 16, 2007 by bilco

[atomant]

If F1 lost all it's sponsor's it would fall apart overnight.

Not really, costs would come down hugely. High paid drivers and big motorhomes would go but it would carry on. Dont forget F1 has Honda, Renault, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and Fiat (Ferrari), they are a few companies that arent exactly short of money. Im sure if they wanted either of them could buy Gas Gas, Sherco & Beta without worrying about what it would cost.

It wasnt that long ago (early 80's) you could run a F1 team on 5million a year, it would just go back to that.

Not forgetting that those car manufacturers you mentioned are sponsors themselves in their own right. F1 wont go far with no engines

What would happen to trials if Honda pulled out? WTC is basically a Honda showcase these days.

[bilco]

If F1 lost all it's sponsor's it would fall apart overnight.

Not really, costs would come down hugely. High paid drivers and big motorhomes would go but it would carry on. Dont forget F1 has Honda, Renault, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and Fiat (Ferrari), they are a few companies that arent exactly short of money. Im sure if they wanted either of them could buy Gas Gas, Sherco & Beta without worrying about what it would cost.

It wasnt that long ago (early 80's) you could run a F1 team on 5million a year, it would just go back to that.

WTC is basically a Honda showcase these days.

Exactly.

And then we come to the point of having to put restriction's on honda to what they can and can't do to the bike's so everything's at an even kill.

The writing is on the wall.

[scottt]

The thing is if enough people want it then it will happen, F1 or Trials if either ended up with 3 people in a van towing a trailer round the uk or Europe to compete then some people would do that.

F1 managed before without the big companies supplying engines, a quick rule change to say engines should be 3LT V8's and theres plenty of them available, and just remember there will always be the TV money for F1, on a worldwide scale only the olympics and the world cup attract more viewers. Plus there are enough people with the money to run there own team and to do it just for fun. Its only since the big money and sponsors came in that stopped that.

Look at it another way in the 50's nearly every motorsport was in a very healthy state, big entrys and good competition, and no or very little sponsorship. In Bike GP's anyone could buy a Manx Norton and be competetive against the works MV's.

Another comparison you could make, yes theres only 22 drivers in F1 but theres another 50 (probably more) that could quite easily jump in a F1car and be competetive, are there another 50 riders that given the chance could compete and even beat Bou?

[atomant]

Are there another 50 riders that given the chance could compete and even beat Bou?

Nope, like there isn't another 50 potential F1 drivers who could jump in a car and beat Alonso.

Time to get off the F1 theme me thinks

[axulsuv]

I for one started riding trials in the 70's , as a extention of enduro riding... Then the tl125 was released and the ty's , rl's and the kt's and Trials

was supposed to be the motorcycle sport of the future !!!! Low noise levels , enviromently freindly , easy to spectate ...few if any serious injuries, lower liability for promoters ...

And the skill and finesse we all do it for . and the fact that if you can become a competent trials rider all other types of motorcycle riding get

easier !!!!????

But then after moving from new england to cali. in the late 70's , And the birth of stadium moto x , and this kid named marty smith ? on a elsinore kicking everyones butt for a few years (while still in High School ) , moto cross in the LA colisium changed our sport forever !

The big 4 put there marketing guys onto speed and excitement and Trials got left behind...(IMHO)

So 30 odd years later I Find a Fantic (whats a fantic ?!) and the trials embers in my soul ignite into a flame and I remember the fun and freinds

and all around goodtimes trials provides . But as I started to get back into the sport I see alot has completly changed . What is a Minder and Who came up with that idea ? When did it evolve into a Xtreme sport where gravity is a option ? Hence I ride in twinshock events when I can and marvel when I see clips of the best there are doing their thing.

Oh well ,Time marches on and the world changes !!!! (who ever thought 25 years ago that I could sit at home and communicate w/people WORLWIDE ! at the push of a button !!!!!!!?????????????)

just my 2pence worth

Glenn

[ishy]

I was reading the BC topic and thought this about sums it up

I went down to check out the action at Hook with a few mates and the standard of sections was very high for the Championship boys- very impressive!

I guess I wasn't used to the 'low key' turn out of spectators for a trials event- maybe it hits home how small the sport in the UK?

What was interesting was to see MX rider Mike Brown there- at Glen Helen in the states last week, Hereford the day before for the British MX Championship, and still turned up to check it out!

Mil

"Maybe it hits home how small the sport is in the UK"

A good motorcycle shop in the UK, probably sells more new bikes, [ insert brand ] than the importer for that brand in the US and many other countries around the world.

The ability of the top riders isn't in question, it's the ability to make a living or at least pay the expenses, if this can't be done, should it not be a true amateur sport, all on stock bikes and prize money instead of sponsorship and factory contracts ?.

Say the total factory expenses for all the factories to run a team for the year was two million Euro, divided by ten rounds, paying 1st through 15th.

Do you think you would see more riders participating if there was a chance of an earner.

We now have the youth 125, Junior, and world champ, will this sort out most before they get to world champ, I don't mean on ability, I mean financially.

[atomant]

I was reading the BC topic and thought this about sums it up

I went down to check out the action at Hook with a few mates and the standard of sections was very high for the Championship boys- very impressive!

I guess I wasn't used to the 'low key' turn out of spectators for a trials event- maybe it hits home how small the sport in the UK?

What was interesting was to see MX rider Mike Brown there- at Glen Helen in the states last week, Hereford the day before for the British MX Championship, and still turned up to check it out!

Mil

"Maybe it hits home how small the sport is in the UK"

A good motorcycle shop in the UK, probably sells more new bikes, [ insert brand ] than the importer for that brand in the US and many other countries around the world.

The ability of the top riders isn't in question, it's the ability to make a living or at least pay the expenses, if this can't be done, should it not be a true amateur sport, all on stock bikes and prize money instead of sponsorship and factory contracts ?.

Say the total factory expenses for all the factories to run a team for the year was two million Euro, divided by ten rounds, paying 1st through 15th.

Do you think you would see more riders participating if there was a chance of an earner.

We now have the youth 125, Junior, and world champ, will this sort out most before they get to world champ, I don't mean on ability, I mean financially.

I've been thinking for a while for some viable alternatives to what we have now for the top boys and this sounds as good as any.

Being devils advocate, wouldn't the manufacturers want to sponsor the riders though? How else would they get their brand in the public spotlight to try and sell some?

As an example, If Honda weren't paying for the top riders, I would suggest Dougie and Bou wouldn't be on 4rt's by choice as then it was still perceived 2T's were superior.