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Rose City, Mi Aug. 2&3


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JimG Posted Today, 10:29 AM

How about this...Make senior class actually a senior class. Is 40 years old really senior? I'd say bump it up to 50.

WHAT!!!!!!! You mean I would have to ride ADV for another 15 years!!!!!! B)

My current goal is ride ADV until I hit 40 then slide into Senior. And still get beat by those same 2 guys that get 1 or 2 points an event. OH heck I might as well stay in ADV, at least those guys have double digit scores that beat me.

Yea 40 is a bit young for senior

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I suppose we could do age brackets as they have always in the Enduro world. 40 is senior, 50 is super senior and 60 is master. I completley agree with you Steve about taking the fun out of it over 1 point. That's exactly why I'm going to Sportsman. I like the idea of another more technical line without the big stuff for SR or SR Adv, but I i'm not sure we'll get enough support to pull that off. Perhaps it's best left as is, but I'm still hoping to get some separation in the SR riders. Thinking about it as I write, most of SR class is already over 50...

When I came back and rode a few trials in 2000 I rode the SR class and was right at the top without much practice . I finished 2nd or third, I know I am riding better now and have done no better than 3rd. Looking at the point spread in the SR class I can see two different skill groups. When ANYONE rides they still would like to have a chance at a win or close to it. (Even if we say it does not matter) Some form of separation will acomplish that. I was just looking at the TI results on their website today, they have two SR classes. I would support any discussion regarding some movement here, whether it be new lines , age brackets, or class designation.

Is there enough interest in this to make a formal request to have it considered for 2009? How do we do that? I don't want to rock the boat either.

Steve, you are fine to ride on the property, that's what is so great about our club grounds- yer in motorcycle country. It's actually legal to ride an orv or bike that has an orv permit on secondary roads throughout Ogemaw County. Put a sticker on your bike and ride it to town or out to the trails system....

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I had spoken with a couple of the board members last year in Vermontville about adding a new class and it was strongly discouraged.

I never followed thru with the proposal after that since the outcome was obvious.

It was made very clear that we already have enough classes and that we do not have the numbers to justify another set of trophies/medals.

I really wanted to add 2 classes.

1. Champ class. (Like TI Series) This would allow ADV to be backed down a bit and also Spt. while also be able to push our top riders to prepare them for the Nationals.

I know many think our EXP line is tough but it is really a poor class to prepare our top guys for the National ES or EXP line.

I agree with Zippy that the ADV line gets layed out for the top 2 or 3 riders. Plus keep in mind a couple of those guys are EXP level riders. Nothing against them it just shows

how difficult the EXP line is. You really have to take time to practice to ride EXP. Its tough on the working family guy to compete.

2.Novice Pro: Call it what you want Novice A & Nov B whatever. We have to many new riders in the INT class that really still do not know how to ride. Nobody wants

to ride Nov because its not cool I suppose so they go into INT and can't do it or get hurt and discouraged and leave the sport.

I strongly feel we should have a points promotion system where you have to earn the right to get into INT.

I think it would make better riders in the long run.

SR. class should be moved up to the age of 50. If you don't agree with me than think of what the the Senior line-up could be within the next 2-3 years.

SR class riders: Jim Gawne, Brad Howard, Gray Howard, Robert Rosen etc. A couple of these guys already qualify......How would you like to sign up against that team on the SR line???? I think we all agree they are way to good for the SR line.

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Yep... with 7 classes covering 50-60 riders I'm not surprised you hit a brick wall suggesting a few more.

I was absent for a number of years, but it seems to me MOTA has done a good job of morphing

the quantity and names of classes to suit. In the early 80's there were a ton of classes - NOV A/B,

Junior A/B, etc. covering maybe 100+ riders. Now it's half that but stable.

Regarding changes, our board members always have open ears, but also seem to quickly squash

a suggestion - justly so too, finding I hadn't fully thought an idea through like they had. I tread

lighter now.

Trying to set my own agenda aside, I do have a few things in mind that might improve some things.

I'm game to kick some in and get em' polished (re: beat) up here.

For starters:

Problem: That huge gap to INT, and the 150 point talent spread across those INT lines - that perhaps

50% of our riders are on. In comparison, the other classes work a zillion times better. We are beating the

new-to-class folks up enough to drive them away so we can get a point or two from SR guys. I gotta

agree with Scott that the 'Beginner' and 'Novice' moniker drives riders into INT too soon.

Problem: The SR class has two types of riders, the squad of diehard older guys - most having physical

limitations of some sort (from 30+ years of Trials) that hold them hostage, and a few younger guys (like me)

that are working on it. Some of the events (inconsistency here) really abuse the older guys and it doesn't

seem right. Be nice if they could compete in a real SR class. That would be the best competition of

the day.

FIX??? How about this thinking (without adding classes): If INT was softened a bit, and BEG and NOV lines

were a bit tougher (renamed too) the issues above would be addressed. The top SR guys wouldn't want to

ride the softer INT lines, so they go to the modded Sportsman line that leaves out that random 'it's too big' thing.

The jist of all this is to just spread the current top and bottom INT riders into neighboring classes.

Were still left with a jump to from SPT to AVD but at least you know what your doing by that time.

Where's Biff?

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Where's Biff?

Last I knew the Dude had mucho vacation stuff going on. I am not sure if he is even near a computer. I think this weekend he is at the Vintage days in Ohio.

I like the idea of easing up INT a bit and getting the top 7 riders of current INT to move to Sports.

The titles of Beginner and Novice are appropriate titles for that level of skill. We could call them "Newbie" and "A little better".

No matter what we name the lowest skill level classes those riders that are concerned with sounding like they are better than they are will always move up too soon.

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The most important things first. FOOD! Plenty of places, some within walking distance. Ranging from wanna be to pretty darn good.. Faull Inn (1/4 mile south) is arguably the best in town. Badlands (on site) serves all three meals and is ok. Breakfast is their best meal. The Rose City Cafe is good too and is 1/2 mile south. The old stand-by of McDoinalds and DQ are also options. The pizza & sub shop across from McDonalds is very good for carry out. More pubs and eateries as well.

I read all of the responses on the classes, it sure seems to stir a lot of thought. I find it hard to believe that the rest of the riders in MOTA are satisfied with the classes as they are. I understand the board's apprehension to make changes, but change can be good. Since I am a "new guy" so to speak, I'm probably not the best person to bring it up to the board,

but a well organized committee that could come up with a proposal that could put together something that reflects the majority might be an option.

The most important question;

Are we losing riders because of how it is at present?

and also;

Will a change potentially improve rider satifaction and subsequently, turnout?

A no answer to these questions might suggest that it should stay unchanged.

Someone will be on site throughout the back half of this week, so come ahead at any time. It is ok to ride when on property, just not in and around the sections. There is a lot of open space. I am headed up first thing Friday morning. Remember you can ride out to state trails from our property, so bring your "other bikes" too.

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Where's Biff?

Right here!!!!

As for where I have been the past couple of weeks.

Believe it or not i still have a job and am buissier then a one legged man in an a$$ kicking contest. (sorry jim that was not directed towards you)


I went up there to check out the enduro cross while those guys were setting up the event. There is one bridge jump off that you might have a problem with on one leg. Call Jeremy to see if you can have an walk around or a ride around. As one of your competitors i want to see you walking and riding so if you are given an opprotunity to ride around something versus hurt yourself i am all about it. Besides you on one leg is still better than me on my two clumbsy ones.

As for the event I have to work on saturday with no way around the issue. I will come to work loaded and be riding with you guys on sunday.

This weekend i rode mid ohio and kicked major butt! I beat Ginder and that was no easy feet.

Our own Scott Beattie put on an awesome trials down there and hats go off to him.

I missed vermontville as i was on my way up to northern canada that day to spend a week in a cabin fishing and water skiing. I think that with all of this missing events stuff Mike may beat me.

Final note:

Almost every other trials organization here in the states has a senior a and senior b for the good and for the great senior riders. Are we big enough to have this? Do Cap and Keener want to ride sportsman stuff? << because at the end of the day its all about those two in that class.



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Biff, thanks for the heads up. I'll have to play it by ear, I just want to go out and have some fun, so if I take some 5's to be safe, then so be it. Knee is feeling better and actually got out and rode for a little bit this past weekend for the first time since Whitmore Lk.

See you Sunday.

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Your right Sam, let's keep it at the marshmellow level!

How about we chat it up over a beer and see if Keener and Cap are up for a bit more challenge - and if not, grab those marshmellows!

Still, it's that jump to INT that I feel bad about. Seen Dennis lately? I don't think he's the only one that's been caught in between.

How 'bout this one... legitimize Beginner and add some meat to Novice? I'll bet our current President has something in mind with the better-half having made the jump. Maybe he'll swap a beer for a thought (at the target practice)

Talk about going off-topic - I should be the dude marshmellowed!

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as a fairly new member of mota i haved watched this thread with high interest but felt a little out of place commenting. but as a guy who just moved up to int. maybe my perspective can be of help.

the move up was a tough one and i think the notion to add difficulty to beg. and nov. has great merit. i believe beg is just to easy for any adult unless they have no motorcycle experience at all. and nov is the real foundation class of trials. so in nov the fundamentals of trials should really be stressed and challenging enough to demand a slightly higher skill set than is required now. im not saying larger more dangerous sections but more technical and demanding sections. no one wants to see anyone get hurt or frustrated,but a section i have to dab dab dab through tells me i can do it , i just need to refine my technique.

BTW kjax if you get a chance to ride with jim jump at it . he is a great teacher and very generous with his time and experience. i ride with jim and scott quite a bit and i cant tell how you good it makes you feel to have them behind me telling me to " BEND YOUR KNEES FAT A$$". it warms the heart really.

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firstgear Posted Yesterday, 01:01 PM

Yeah, Jim and I rode but it was tough since his wheel chair kept getting hung up on everything! Ha Ha.....

HEY what are you doing going out practicing????? I still have to start that Sherco since the last event.

Jim you need to retro fit a Skid plate to that chair. Then you could slide over the obstacles instead of getting hung up.

How many CC's is that chair??? 10? one for each finger of the hand power?? :P


When you get that fender can you snag Gaby's forks for me. :D

gasgastim Posted Yesterday, 11:37 PM


Hey I've heard that before also. B)

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It really does feel like MOTA is on an upswing. Trials has been a great way for me to keep my competition "toes" in the water without the big "dive"of racing HareScrambles and Enduro. The cost is so much lower and it takes only a resaonable day for most local events. I really think the idea of SOME two day events mixed into the ordinary schedule of Sundays is GREAT! The key here is some, let's not make all of the events two day. As I write this I am wondering, what if we tried to make the 2009 East Side Trials a combo with the Endurocross? Not sure - just me rambling......

Hey Sam, We are looking forward to more IN guys giving us a try- hope the two day format will bring em in. The grounds in Rose City will support a much bigger event, perhaps we should look at someting more regional for the future?????

Jim, Just shout when your schedule allows. I have at least two sections at home that have been EEOC certified as barrier free. I even have another chair for your use if you crash out on yours. My stepdaughter was given the go to begin weight bearing on her knee today. That's just 4 weeks after surgery. (She was much worse for 7 weeks BEFORE the surgery though)

I am going up to our cabin in Black Lake to re-roof the place on 8/8 thru 8/11. BUt other wise I am pretty flexible - weekday evenings are fine. Let Scott know too.

On the SR class issue, perhaps the best start is to bring it up over rounds of Yagermeister and Smores (yuck!) this weekend. Gaby- you are completely selfless, donating your bike to the Motorcycle Fire Gods of Rose City. I can assure you that it's not the first (probably not the last either) bike or bike parts to sacrificed to the Fire Gods. The BWCC has had quite a history since 1968, Bob C might remember our two day ISDE qualifiers and National Enduros that created the legacy that is the BWCC. On that Sherco fender Sam, you might have to wrestle Joey Kutchey for it- He is on his eighth fender this year!

Last minute update- We are breaking out the skid loader this Friday to add just a bit more ZING to few of the sections!

Zippy- You are WAYYYYY to young to do the SR thing. Be all the nut that you can be!

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