Week 78 - A Bunch Of Broadsides

[Andy]

I see that the ACU has recently sent a memo to all centre secretaries, the press and to Trials Central which says that abuse of observers by riders has been noted recently and must cease and that any further examples must be severely dealt with by the clerk of the course.

Strange, but I reckon I ride as many trials as most folks and more than many others, yet I can

[kickstart0748]

I have to agree with you why do clubs insist on setting out sections for to take MEGGA marks, it is difficult concentration wise to ride a section when you have only lost single figures on the day, but also gives riders a great boost to have a score which reflects some ability, not as is often the case to give a score line as if you have never ridden before. As I was told many years ago by an old hand dont make 'em climb trees make the section longer and that will take your dabs.

[bikespace]

I've got the odd concern locally regarding abusive riders. In this case it is younger riders with any observers. Due to a little lack of help recently I was Clerk of Course AND an observer (not great but needs must) when one young lad had a fair go at convincing me he hadn't had a 5 on my section. I'm a pretty fair observer in my view, and the rider does get the benefit of the doubt always, but I didn't have any doubt at all.

When I say young, the lad drove to the trial, so he's not that young.

I just wonder how far the rider in question would go if I wasn't 19 stone and hadn't told him to sling his hook before I buried him. I did hear that he'd whinged for most of that lap.

I'm not sure if the rider comes on here, but if he does he probably knows who I mean, and despite the fact that I've got nothing at all against him personally, I know if he does that to anybody else while I'm Clerk of Course I'll have no hesitation in excluding him, and if necessary banning him from our trials. Yeah we need riders, but not that type, and to be honest we need observers a damned sight more.

It's a modern football mentality that I can't stand. I play by rugby rules, and mess with the ref you get knocked back 10 yards.

Edited August 4, 2008 by bikespace

[ishy]

Monkey see monkey do, if the top contenders can argue enough with the official to get what was a five turned into a one, why can't little **** face, they only do what they are allowed to get away with.

My lad knows he would get his ass kicked if I caught him being disrespectful to anybody, but you see some who have no problem showing observers, parents or anyone else their knowledge of foul language.

A few French riders in past years have sworn, punched, even gone into a full Bonaparte, and not earned more than a slap on the wrist, bout time the Governing bodies did clamp down, but I doubt they will.

[cota kid]

Heard of an incident, in the East Yorks Centre, where a youth rider was abusive to an observer and got excluded from the trial and I think banned from the Club.

As regards football, I wish the referee's were as strong as the rugby counter parts. Players will always work their ticket if they continue to get away with it. I personally would red card any player using abusive language as well as Managers.

[bikespace]

With regard to the Manx 2 day, I 'think' it was Cubby I was speaking to just after it, and (whoever it was) acknowledged that a couple of the sections were a bit tight for the clubmen, section 1 on the first day being one of them, where those of us that could flicked the back end round and got through (it was the right way for me too (cuddywifter). I thought the rest of the trial was pretty reasonable (well the whole trial was excellent as usual - but you know what I mean), I don't stop and fart about too often, so I would notice if I had to. Out of all those sections, for just a couple of them to be a bit tight isn't too bad.

You're probably not old enough Mike, but even in the old days, on the odd section you might have to put a foot down and pivot the front wheel round. Not many seem to do that these days as the rear end flick is possible, but an intelligent dab is better than a botched flick of the rear

[Andy]

A few French riders in past years have sworn, punched, even gone into a full Bonaparte, and not earned more than a slap on the wrist, bout time the Governing bodies did clamp down, but I doubt they will.

FFS. If you mean Bruno "The rules don't apply to me" Camozzi, why don't you just say so? The guy should be permanently banned from anything to do with Trials.

[scorpa3]

I was observing a few years back at the Manx 2 day when a certain top rider had a dab.

After the section he walked over to me to check his score and argued that he hadn't had the dab.

He got quite hot under the collar when I told him that the dab stood, the same as everyone else who had dabbed in exactly the same spot. He wasn't impressed to say the least and was still chuntering as he rode off over the hill, followed by his large group of riding companions.

I must say that I started to doubt my own eyes and almost changed the score, but some time later a spectator appeared at my side and said 'you were right' and he held up a video camera. There in full colour was the dab, as clear as day absolutley no doubt about it.

That rider lost the trial by one mark.... I suppose it was worth the try, but not a very good example to set. Especially from the World Champion at the time!

[eiger]

A few weeks ago Alan Nixon, the hard working secretary (along with his wife Ruth) of the North Derbyshire Youth Motorcycle Club, submitted a letter which was printed in the TMX after the club had hosted a round of the C and D class National Champs at Victory Quarry near Buxton.

An observer at the event, who was a regular volunteer and involved in virtually every aspect of the sport from setting sections to arranging coaching sessions, had been verbally abused by a parent over an observing decision to such an extent the observer genuinely believed he was about to be assaulted.

After the event he stated he would not observe again.

The following week the TMX printed a letter from a (the?) parent present at the same trial who, in a poorly considered and constructed response, stated the matter was blown out of proportion, sadly the author did not wish for his identity to be disclosed. My initial thought was that I was disappointed with the TMX for printing such a letter but the fact it was made public pretty much destroyed the authors integrity and very much supported the initial complaint from Alan Nixon and the fact the letter was made public was undoubtedy the correct decision and in the interest of the sport.

The following week I also sent an email in defence of the observer in question, a man who I have known for a number of years and who is a highly valued member of more than one club in the area, he has no offspring involed in the sport but devotes his time because of his love of trials and the enjoyment gained from spending time with like-minded people.

My letter stated that my family have been involved with trials for over thirty years but my wife will no longer observe at 'youth only' trials due to the attitude of some parents who she refers to as the 'brat pack', questioning her judgement to such an extent she felt intimidated at times.

Most of us will know who I mean, usually the ones who never help out but turn up and follow their offspring round shouting and bawling, you can easily spot the long suffering child as they are often in tears and hating every minute of what should be great fun.

Don't get me wrong, most parents want whats best for their children and respect the club officials and enjoy their days sport but, as in all sports, a minority can spoil things.

The incident I have mentioned has been the subject of a report to the ACU from the steward on the day - Penny Ludgate - and this is or has already been discussed.

As a rider, observer and sometimes section plotter, I appreciate some people will not be happy with a particular decision and welcome a reasonable question, but to be abused, threatened, or itimidated in any way should result in the offenders being banned.

As I said in my letter to TMX, if the perpertrator has caused the loss of a volunteer then he should have the integrity to put himself forward as a replacement, a fact I DOUBT HIS cv would even come close to.

Eiger

[montman]

Nothing new here - I remember over 30 years ago when running a OTC event, excluding a top centre rider of the time for verbally abusing an observer.

But fair play to this particular competitor he wrote an impressive apologetic letter after the event.

[jordi]

FFS. If you mean Bruno "The rules don't apply to me" Camozzi, why don't you just say so? The guy should be permanently banned from anything to do with Trials.

I think ishy may be refering to the Philliphe Berlatier incident, cannot remember which year, possibly 83, , that escalated into a fist fight in a section at a world round. It was on one of the Duke Video tapes.

p.s. have to agree about Camozzi, got in his way between sections in a French trial years ago, I was not riding quick enough for him. Talk about rude!

Edited August 4, 2008 by jordi

[baldilocks]

Fred Michaud knocked an observers hat off for giving brother Theirry a five, should we just ban the french ??

getting back to Mikes point about the rules I can now see it from both sides, the observer and the rider.

The stop is a one mark penalty set of rules (cant remember which TSR this is) better suits todays section style in some locations and allows more people to compete on harder sections, however its very complex to observe. The Reeth 3 day has fantastic natural terrain which suits non stop as you dont need lots of tight turns to take marks.

My step son has had a go at observing in the North East centre this year which runs no stop rules and he has little knowledge of the rules of trials. However lots of the sections on the hard course require stopping and observers tend to be very lenient regardless of the rider being feet up or not. I tried to explain to my step son that a stop is a five but really momentary stops are allowed which he was understandably a little puzzled at.

Now try explaining the FIM rules to him, you can stop as long as you want and thats a score of 1, if you stop with a foot down thats a 2 but in both scenarios a momentary stop is ok and you wont score the extra 1. If the rider hops the front or rear wheel whilst stationary this is a five unless its a momentary stop which is ok, going backwards is a five, taking your hand off the bars is a five. From the novice observers point of view its more difficult to apply and as a sport we need to make it easy for people to observe.

So my view is

A. if the terrain permits run full no stop as its simple to observe, observe strictly and you dont need the sections to be too hard which allows the majority people to enjoy themselves.

B. if your CoC determines that he cant mark out a non stop trial on the terrain available use the current world round rules where a stop is permitted, in the NE centres case thats what we seem to observe anyway although we call it no stop......

I'm not knocking the NE centre in any way here and I'm sure other places are doing the same.

Finally if you or your parents cant accept an observers decision go practising instead then you always get a score you agree with !

Edited August 5, 2008 by Baldilocks

[cubby]

Cheers Bikespace, I do remember that conversation.

All I can say is that this year we have the appropriate amount of time on our hands and have listened to the feedback from last year. So we should find less of the tight, up your own ar5e sections and more of the ridable and natural stuff.

Or at least thats the plan!

I have been disapointed actually with a few riders who were regular visitors to the trial saying that after last year they won't be back. Mainly due to the sections being too hard. One thing the Manx has never been is too hard, and maybe yes, last year was not up to quite the usual standard, but it is a bit harsh to judge a long standing and popular trial from one time when we had the sum total of 3 weeks to re-organise the whole thing. (remember last summers F & M problems?)

Hopefully Mike and Bikespace will have an enjoyable time this year, hopefully the bloody rain will stop and we can all come back and tell you how great it was!

[doogle]

Cheers Bikespace, I do remember that conversation.

All I can say is that this year we have the appropriate amount of time on our hands and have listened to the feedback from last year. So we should find less of the tight, up your own ar5e sections and more of the ridable and natural stuff.

Or at least thats the plan!

I have been disapointed actually with a few riders who were regular visitors to the trial saying that after last year they won't be back. Mainly due to the sections being too hard. One thing the Manx has never been is too hard, and maybe yes, last year was not up to quite the usual standard, but it is a bit harsh to judge a long standing and popular trial from one time when we had the sum total of 3 weeks to re-organise the whole thing. (remember last summers F & M problems?)

Hopefully Mike and Bikespace will have an enjoyable time this year, hopefully the bloody rain will stop and we can all come back and tell you how great it was!

I have ridden for the last 3 years, I am not riding this year, but that has nothing to do with the trial. I just can't make it. Fantastic. With the exception of section one last year was fine. And even that was ok because my friend i was riding with got stuck for a 5 and I got away with a 1. He is a lot better than me so I enjoyed shouting abuse at him from the queue. should have kept my mouth shut though as I ended up in the bog on the same section when we went back to it at the end of the day. Covered fom head to toe in crap, and my relatively clean bike hanging in mud after the last section.

Guess that is karma.