docktor Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I started this ,because of the comments made by the westmorland club on their results page. My wife used to observe, but no more you can guess why.A solution could be, that if a club was doing a club championship of say 5 rounds ,10 sections thats 50 observers.To enter the championship you have to nominate which event you are observing.4 events would count .If there were more than 50 entrants there could be a lottery, or entrants could be given tidy up duties , help set the course, this also aleviates the problem of the hardy few doing everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I started this ,because of the comments made by the westmorland club on their results page. My wife used to observe, but no more you can guess why.A solution could be, that if a club was doing a club championship of say 5 rounds ,10 sections thats 50 observers.To enter the championship you have to nominate which event you are observing.4 events would count .If there were more than 50 entrants there could be a lottery, or entrants could be given tidy up duties , help set the course, this also aleviates the problem of the hardy few doing everything. Lanarkshire club has Rule 9. Every rider has to nominate a round during the year to observe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) We don't usually have problems getting observers. The observers hopefully know our view on abuse, and will at least be comforted by that until they get to speak to one of us. I hope we don't go the way football has - younger kids see abusive top sportsmen and think that's the way to behave. I've mentioned Taddy before - i've not liked the bloke since Hawkstone 3 years ago when he said he hoped my family died a painful death (nice chap ). On that occasion I decided to annoy him more by smiling and saying "It's still a 5". Hopefully I ruined his day, but it was a blatant 5. I won't mention names for others but one of the top 5 or 6 British youths nearly got drowned in a Novogar event when he ran back down the section and mouthed at the observer for what was a blatant flattened flag. I'm sure there's many opposite examples, but Wiggy springs to mind. I saw him get a 5 on what I thought was a fairly dodgy decision and took it like a true gent. I don't know Wiggy that well (we tend to ride a different level of trial ), but Julian seems to have kept him on the straight and narrow through his early years and now he's his own man he seems to be keeping it up (from what I've seen). Great example. I think it's up to the old farts of trials (and I include myself) to have a bit of banter with the observers, show the respect, provide an example, and to a certain extent protect the observer from dumb schmuck abusive riders. Edited January 14, 2009 by bikespace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wri5hty Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 i've not liked the bloke since Hawkstone 3 years ago when he said he hoped my family died a painful death i don't blame you mate. I would rather be told to f***off than have that said to me. must of took a bit of will power not to knock him out. did anything happen to him for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamjayzee Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I'm hoping that common sense and good manners prevail, and it should never get as far as sanctions, but we should NEVER accept abuse of officials. At trials I ride, most observers are their own people and 'banter' with riders and all is good. However, support for observers should come from everyone at the trial. Let's face it, abusers are a tiny minority and it's rarely going to be that incidents occur without waiting riders seeing it. Again, a quiet word from other riders will 're-align' most people. If not these riders need to support the observers and clerks of the course by having a gentle word. Look at Rugby as an example of a sport of high energy and likely flashpoint being properly game managed but supported officials and a no-abuse policy. Instant 10-minue sin-binning or territorial losses seriously hurt a team and are effective sanctions that prevent abuse. I'm not advocating that observers issue penalty marks, but if persistant offenders were to be issued 5s for abuse, it would soon stop. I'm not talking about a rash outburst followed by an immediate apology, but persistant repeat offenders. They can appeal with fee the same as they can for any mark decision, but if any rider had supported the allegation of abuse, it's just cost them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter9000uk Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Make it plain in the regs for the event that arguing/insulting observers will not be tolerated. May it clear the observer can and will refuse to mark their card which will result in a 10 mark penalty, no arguments end of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docheckle Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) Without observers you won't even get the chance of a five, I can't believe people abuse the much needed observers. Fortunately our club seems to be light hearted , after all at clubman level it is just a hobby to be enjoyed Three cheers for the observers Edited January 15, 2009 by docheckle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I'm sure there's many opposite examples, but Wiggy springs to mind. I saw him get a 5 on what I thought was a fairly dodgy decision and took it like a true gent. I saw Wiggy get a 5 at the USA WTC on the Sunday (section 7 I think ) . I had a clear view of the section and there was a point on the exit where he was deemed to ride over the flag. All the riders were taking the same line and clearly to my view, he was inside the line. He protested to the observer in a polite way and got nowhere. Annoyed he rode off but still took it well even though that 5 cost him the win as he finished 3 points behind Loris Gubian for second place. .....but have you seen Laia Sanz protest to an observer on a bad day ! Geez , dummy out the pram job or what ! ( she's not alone though ... ) I sorta protested to an observer once as she gave me a 1 when I took a 3. It was funny as she wasn't happy punching out the rest of the holes to give me the 3 as the riders were stacking up . Honesty is the best policy and all that! Wish I hadn't mentioned it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) .....but have you seen Laia Sanz protest to an observer on a bad day ! Geez , dummy out the pram job or what ! ( she's not alone though ... ) Yep - same again at Hawkstone - not to me, but Laia had a right tantrum, the crowd were actually laughing. I can't stand the bloke, errrr girl. Edited January 15, 2009 by bikespace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 A club local to me has no problem getting observers mind they did give Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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